4 ms·

That's also one of the things that makes Seattle such a kickass city. Don't "enforce the hell out of the law" like a rookie cop with a hard on. Instead, realiz

by veidr 14y ago

That's also one of the things that makes Seattle such a kickass city. Don't "enforce the hell out of the law" like a rookie cop with a hard on. Instead, realize that one of the most important jobs of a city is to strike the right balance to make the city an awesome place to live and work. Laws don't always have to mean heavyhanded enforcement; sometimes they just provide the authority needed to deal with a potential problem in case it ever actually becomes a serious problem. (Which smoking a cigarette in an outdoor park really, really isn't. I don't care to stand right next to smokers either, but in an outdoor park you really don't have to.)

shawn-butler 14y ago
This is the antithesis to good law. Crafting laws to deal with potential problems to be used at discretion of police should be avoided at all costs. First, because it is unjust, and second, because it leads directly to either actual or perceptions of abuse of police power undermining faith in the system. These sorts of "nuisance" discretionary laws are often used against minority populations discriminately. Prohibition was essentially a social/cultural movement that was very bad law making possession and distribution of alcohol illegal because it had the potential to lead to things that were already illegal (public drunkeness, etc). These public smoking bans in theory are crafted because secondhand smoke (be it from tobacco or another source) has the potential to cause cancer in people standing nearby in a public park. Of course, neither prohibition nor smoking bans in public parks were ever really about preventing minor incidents of public drunkeness or absurdly low risks of cancer from secondhand smoke. They were obviously about abusing the law in order to discourage behaviour (drinking, smoking) that were previously a cultural norm but for which no actual justification exists for ending. Really bugs me, but I'm obviously biased by preferences for minimalism in regulation and law.
- veidr 14y ago
  I totally agree with you that it is not good law. I think it is good policing, though. Seattle has a pretty great police department, especially for a city so big. Now, the cops deciding how and what laws to enforce doesn't always work out well, but as a practical matter that is part of what police departments have to do in every city, and Seattle's police seem to do it particularly well.

by veidr 14y ago

shawn-butler 14y ago

This is the antithesis to good law. Crafting laws to deal with potential problems to be used at discretion of police should be avoided at all costs. First, because it is unjust, and second, because it leads directly to either actual or perceptions of abuse of police power undermining faith in the system. These sorts of "nuisance" discretionary laws are often used against minority populations discriminately. Prohibition was essentially a social/cultural movement that was very bad law making possession and distribution of alcohol illegal because it had the potential to lead to things that were already illegal (public drunkeness, etc). These public smoking bans in theory are crafted because secondhand smoke (be it from tobacco or another source) has the potential to cause cancer in people standing nearby in a public park. Of course, neither prohibition nor smoking bans in public parks were ever really about preventing minor incidents of public drunkeness or absurdly low risks of cancer from secondhand smoke. They were obviously about abusing the law in order to discourage behaviour (drinking, smoking) that were previously a cultural norm but for which no actual justification exists for ending. Really bugs me, but I'm obviously biased by preferences for minimalism in regulation and law.

veidr 14y ago
I totally agree with you that it is not good law. I think it is good policing, though. Seattle has a pretty great police department, especially for a city so big. Now, the cops deciding how and what laws to enforce doesn't always work out well, but as a practical matter that is part of what police departments have to do in every city, and Seattle's police seem to do it particularly well.