4 ms·

Bitcoin Central Licensed as Bank

78 points by enmaku 14y ago

xntrk 14y ago
Bitcoin Central to be hacked in 3...2...1.....
dsr_ 14y ago
Are accounts insured in BTC or EUR? It seems to me that closing the bank (and let's face it, that does happen in the real world from time to time) could cause a run on BTC since the supply is so limited compared to traditional currencies. If all accounts are actually insured in EUR, on the other hand, BTC deposits are either not covered or are treated as equivalent to EUR via an exchange rate, which implies actual equivalence.
- saturn7 14y ago
  Only Euro deposits are insured. It's like a trading account for stocks. You cash is safe, but if your investments in stocks loose value then that's your problem.
Petrushka 14y ago
Quite interesting that Bitcoin appears to be making inroads into the mainstream financial system (which being registered a bank would seem to imply). The primary issue with Bitcoin is that because it is issued by no one, and is no one's primary currency, there is no incentive or ability by any organization to regulate it through monetary policy. It's value is set only by the market. The flaws with such a system is obvious, and Bitcoin experienced it itself when it went through that massive devaluation a few years back. Even with automated banking systems, the market structures used throughout the world are based on currencies having a measure of stability to them in terms of pricing, or, at the very least, that a central bank of some sort will give ample notice before a massive change will occur. With Bitcoin, that all goes out the window, and pricing becomes a major challenge. As such, I don't see anyway Bitcoin can move into the mainstream marketplace. It has to be a niche provider. So this step is very interesting and counter-intuitive. Should note, when I say no regulation, I mean it can't be regulated according to market movements. It's regulated by a pre-set system of release, not one that can react to changing circumstances.
- yebyen 14y ago
  > Bitcoin experienced it itself when it went through that massive devaluation a few years back. When? I remember one major dump taken by the price of Bitcoin, and it was a few days into a great big bubble. http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#tgSzm1g10zm2g25zv http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#tgSzm1g10zm2g25zv If you were counting on the price to keep going up and up, maybe then you saw it as a massive devaluation. I myself would have called it a bubble that burst... compare the price in May of last year to the price in May of this year, or September-to-September, and it just looks a bit volatile, but on average rising. EDIT: OK, so when I look at the chart and stop trying to argue a point, I do see a protracted devaluation. I remember hearing it was because a large account was hacked and the hacker dumped a large number of coins on the market. That was after that peak in last June. No explanation why the price would have soared so high, but for folks who weren't on the scene, that might explain the downturn.
  - Petrushka 14y ago
    Exactly. "No explanation why the price would have soared so high" is the exact reason why Bitcoin will have issues trying to tie into the larger financial structure without series difficulties. Ever seen Trading Places? The stock market scene at the end where they make a killing is based (fundamentally, forgetting about the fraud) on the fact that the value of the Frozen OJ drops to 25% of its former value in a single moment. The normal financial system has things in place, both internally and externally, so that (fraud not withstanding) such a rapid (de)valuation increase doesn't happen regularly (when it does, you get 1873, 1929, 2008, etc). Bitcoin doesn't have the internal measures, as it isn't issued by a central authority, which can alter the amount of currency in the market at will. As such, it would need some many external controls, such as say a 24-hour transaction period, to be useable on the open market, which would in turn make it unreasonable for the open market. And if you're wondering why Bitcoin is being seriously studied by economists, that's why. No one has seen anything like this ever, and what happens, and how that can influence general economic models, is fascinating.
    - yebyen 14y ago
minato 14y ago
What kind of bank make a test on an FAQ page ?! https://bitcoin-central.net/s/faq https://bitcoin-central.net/s/faq
apeace 14y ago
This is a huge step backwards. I don't understand why anyone wants this to be done. Banks are already great for things that banks do, like insuring deposits and putting your account within reach of authorities. Presenting an ID to get a Bitcoin account which is regulated by central authorities, both private and government, seems antithetical to the purpose of Bitcoin. This isn't to say one organization going mainstream PSP will hurt Bitcoin. I simply don't see the point, that's all. The rest of us will continue using Bitcoin through Tor and i2p, keeping our money safe and anonymous.
- jerguismi 14y ago
  > This is a huge step backwards. I don't understand this mentality. There is only an additional service on the market, nobody forces you to use it if you don't see the need. If somebody else finds it useful, how it is your problem?
  - apeace 14y ago
    My comment was not to ask anyone to stop forcing a service on me, or to point out that it's harming me. As I said: > This isn't to say one organization going mainstream PSP will hurt Bitcoin. I simply don't see the point, that's all.
- pkulak 14y ago
  > The rest of us will continue using Bitcoin through Tor and i2p, keeping our money safe and anonymous. Good for you. But you can already buy drugs with bitcoin. That problem has been solved; for a while now. What's not solved is being able to use it for everything else. That's only going to happen with more legitimacy and general use.
  - apeace 14y ago
    I disagree that joining with traditional banks and government regulators is the only way for Bitcoin to go mainstream. The government regulators are the ones who cause fees, delays, or spying on international transfers. Bitcoin has solved this problem, and international transfers can be done just as easily and quickly as any other transaction. At some point this is sure to change for Bitcoin Central customers, as the government starts making decisions about how Bitcoin transactions should be handled. Again, I'm not complaining of a detriment to myself or anyone else. I just don't see the point. Perhaps calling it a "huge step backwards" was misguided. What I meant by that was, if I were a customer of Bitcoin Central it would feel like a huge step backwards for me, and if the general Bitcoin community went this direction it would feel like a huge step backwards. EDIT: grammar

78 points by enmaku 14y ago

xntrk 14y ago

Bitcoin Central to be hacked in 3...2...1.....

dsr_ 14y ago

Are accounts insured in BTC or EUR? It seems to me that closing the bank (and let's face it, that does happen in the real world from time to time) could cause a run on BTC since the supply is so limited compared to traditional currencies. If all accounts are actually insured in EUR, on the other hand, BTC deposits are either not covered or are treated as equivalent to EUR via an exchange rate, which implies actual equivalence.

saturn7 14y ago
Only Euro deposits are insured. It's like a trading account for stocks. You cash is safe, but if your investments in stocks loose value then that's your problem.

Petrushka 14y ago

Quite interesting that Bitcoin appears to be making inroads into the mainstream financial system (which being registered a bank would seem to imply). The primary issue with Bitcoin is that because it is issued by no one, and is no one's primary currency, there is no incentive or ability by any organization to regulate it through monetary policy. It's value is set only by the market. The flaws with such a system is obvious, and Bitcoin experienced it itself when it went through that massive devaluation a few years back. Even with automated banking systems, the market structures used throughout the world are based on currencies having a measure of stability to them in terms of pricing, or, at the very least, that a central bank of some sort will give ample notice before a massive change will occur. With Bitcoin, that all goes out the window, and pricing becomes a major challenge. As such, I don't see anyway Bitcoin can move into the mainstream marketplace. It has to be a niche provider. So this step is very interesting and counter-intuitive. Should note, when I say no regulation, I mean it can't be regulated according to market movements. It's regulated by a pre-set system of release, not one that can react to changing circumstances.

yebyen 14y ago
> Bitcoin experienced it itself when it went through that massive devaluation a few years back. When? I remember one major dump taken by the price of Bitcoin, and it was a few days into a great big bubble. http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#tgSzm1g10zm2g25zv http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/mtgoxUSD#tgSzm1g10zm2g25zv If you were counting on the price to keep going up and up, maybe then you saw it as a massive devaluation. I myself would have called it a bubble that burst... compare the price in May of last year to the price in May of this year, or September-to-September, and it just looks a bit volatile, but on average rising. EDIT: OK, so when I look at the chart and stop trying to argue a point, I do see a protracted devaluation. I remember hearing it was because a large account was hacked and the hacker dumped a large number of coins on the market. That was after that peak in last June. No explanation why the price would have soared so high, but for folks who weren't on the scene, that might explain the downturn.
- Petrushka 14y ago
  Exactly. "No explanation why the price would have soared so high" is the exact reason why Bitcoin will have issues trying to tie into the larger financial structure without series difficulties. Ever seen Trading Places? The stock market scene at the end where they make a killing is based (fundamentally, forgetting about the fraud) on the fact that the value of the Frozen OJ drops to 25% of its former value in a single moment. The normal financial system has things in place, both internally and externally, so that (fraud not withstanding) such a rapid (de)valuation increase doesn't happen regularly (when it does, you get 1873, 1929, 2008, etc). Bitcoin doesn't have the internal measures, as it isn't issued by a central authority, which can alter the amount of currency in the market at will. As such, it would need some many external controls, such as say a 24-hour transaction period, to be useable on the open market, which would in turn make it unreasonable for the open market. And if you're wondering why Bitcoin is being seriously studied by economists, that's why. No one has seen anything like this ever, and what happens, and how that can influence general economic models, is fascinating.
  - yebyen 14y ago

minato 14y ago

What kind of bank make a test on an FAQ page ?! https://bitcoin-central.net/s/faq https://bitcoin-central.net/s/faq

apeace 14y ago

This is a huge step backwards. I don't understand why anyone wants this to be done. Banks are already great for things that banks do, like insuring deposits and putting your account within reach of authorities. Presenting an ID to get a Bitcoin account which is regulated by central authorities, both private and government, seems antithetical to the purpose of Bitcoin. This isn't to say one organization going mainstream PSP will hurt Bitcoin. I simply don't see the point, that's all. The rest of us will continue using Bitcoin through Tor and i2p, keeping our money safe and anonymous.

jerguismi 14y ago
> This is a huge step backwards. I don't understand this mentality. There is only an additional service on the market, nobody forces you to use it if you don't see the need. If somebody else finds it useful, how it is your problem?
- apeace 14y ago
  My comment was not to ask anyone to stop forcing a service on me, or to point out that it's harming me. As I said: > This isn't to say one organization going mainstream PSP will hurt Bitcoin. I simply don't see the point, that's all.
pkulak 14y ago
> The rest of us will continue using Bitcoin through Tor and i2p, keeping our money safe and anonymous. Good for you. But you can already buy drugs with bitcoin. That problem has been solved; for a while now. What's not solved is being able to use it for everything else. That's only going to happen with more legitimacy and general use.
- apeace 14y ago
  I disagree that joining with traditional banks and government regulators is the only way for Bitcoin to go mainstream. The government regulators are the ones who cause fees, delays, or spying on international transfers. Bitcoin has solved this problem, and international transfers can be done just as easily and quickly as any other transaction. At some point this is sure to change for Bitcoin Central customers, as the government starts making decisions about how Bitcoin transactions should be handled. Again, I'm not complaining of a detriment to myself or anyone else. I just don't see the point. Perhaps calling it a "huge step backwards" was misguided. What I meant by that was, if I were a customer of Bitcoin Central it would feel like a huge step backwards for me, and if the general Bitcoin community went this direction it would feel like a huge step backwards. EDIT: grammar