4 ms·

I have no context of who you are/your position here, but the responses you're getting seem absurd to me. I just don't understand people placing the blame on yo

by ar_lan 3mo ago

I have no context of who you are/your position here, but the responses you're getting seem absurd to me. I just don't understand people placing the blame on you when it should be on your company. Most people in the world are just trying to keep their job - you did it. It wasn't something illegal, it was something that if you didn't do, you would have risked your job and then someone else would have done it anyway.

atonse 3mo ago
Exactly. Those low quality comments are an example of the sad erosion of quality of comments on HN that I and others have complained about in recent times.
- ToucanLoucan 3mo ago
  It's perfectly valid in our increasingly enshittified world to be angry with all those responsible for it. As much as you're right to point the finger a the C-suites, ultimately ALL of these user-hostile features, every single one, only exists because devs keep putting fingers to keyboards in exchange for checks. Tech workers had a time where unionization and getting a voice in our companies was very much on the table, and the biggest voices among us shouted down the others in the name of rockstar salaries and free beer at the office. The "top contributors" at huge companies were scared shitless that they might have to accept a wage too much like the REST of their software engineer coworkers. The horror.
  - blackqueeriroh 3mo ago
    This is a deeply ignorant comment. Do you understand how much money you have to have IN SAVINGS in order to be able to weather even a moderately short hospital stay in the United States when you’re uninsured?
59percentmore 3mo ago
Because the difference between what he's done and, say, the practice of the people who peddled opioids for a paycheck is one of degree, not kind.
- SecretDreams 3mo ago
  Yeah, but it's multiple orders of magnitude apart. Are we also going to start putting LLM engineers to the fire because they're accelerating the enshitification of our world? Probably not.
  - LadyCailin 3mo ago
    That’s not a good example, since you can argue that LLMs have utility to humanity. Hiding the cancel button has none, except for rent seeking.
    - angrysaki 3mo ago
      The bigger difference is that the net utility for LLMs could turn out to be massively negative
      - LadyCailin 3mo ago
        Maybe! But that’s certainly debatable. “I thought I was doing the right thing” is anyways a much better defense than “I was just following orders” anyways.
    - SecretDreams 3mo ago
      Rockets have value to humanity too, but some people that worked on rockets ended up working for people that did not want to use rockets to improve human life.
- sillyfluke 3mo ago
  Obviously the difference of degree on the spectrum between the two in this case does vary greatly, but your comment reminded me of an interview with a journalist who had compiled a collection of interviews with midtier drug dealers in various cartels and one thing that stood out to him was that almost all of them, when asked why they did what they did, would respond by saying that if they didn't someone else would.
- nixon_why69 3mo ago
forgetfreeman 3mo ago
"I was just following orders" is not, and has never been, a credible defense of unethical behavior.
- littlecranky67 3mo ago
  Unless you were in the US. There it always worked.
  - inigyou 3mo ago
    It's always worked everywhere. It even worked for the original people who used it, except for a few of them.
- Computer0 3mo ago
  I see it everyday
deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]
constantius 3mo ago
Saying no is always an option, and this seemed like the opportunity for this. Highly paid devs consistently choosing to do this and using the "following orders"/"food on the table" defense should be socially unacceptable. However, the parent seems to feel no guilt despite the many comments blaming him, so I think protecting his feelings is not necessary.
- nixon_why69 3mo ago
  You don't know anything about them. Do they have kids? On a visa? Both? Need health insurance? Yes, "just following orders" was not an excuse for the holocaust but we're talking about a subscription here. I for one appreciate the honesty.
- ar_lan 3mo ago
  90% of my coworkers are H1B and are basically perpetually terrified of being deported. I completely disagree with your assessment. > so I think protecting his feelings is not necessary. No, just the barrage of completely lacking-of-empathy responders need your white-knighting. It’s a good thing you’re here for them.
- triceratops 3mo ago
  > using the "following orders"/"food on the table" defense should be socially unacceptable...the parent seems to feel no guilt despite the many comments blaming him Wild to compare implementing dark UX patterns to working at a concentration camp. Why not blame the electorate for voting poorly?
account42 3mo ago
Blame should fall on both. The deliberate evil at the top and the banality of evil at the bottom.

by ar_lan 3mo ago

atonse 3mo ago

Exactly. Those low quality comments are an example of the sad erosion of quality of comments on HN that I and others have complained about in recent times.

ToucanLoucan 3mo ago
It's perfectly valid in our increasingly enshittified world to be angry with all those responsible for it. As much as you're right to point the finger a the C-suites, ultimately ALL of these user-hostile features, every single one, only exists because devs keep putting fingers to keyboards in exchange for checks. Tech workers had a time where unionization and getting a voice in our companies was very much on the table, and the biggest voices among us shouted down the others in the name of rockstar salaries and free beer at the office. The "top contributors" at huge companies were scared shitless that they might have to accept a wage too much like the REST of their software engineer coworkers. The horror.
- blackqueeriroh 3mo ago
  This is a deeply ignorant comment. Do you understand how much money you have to have IN SAVINGS in order to be able to weather even a moderately short hospital stay in the United States when you’re uninsured?

59percentmore 3mo ago

Because the difference between what he's done and, say, the practice of the people who peddled opioids for a paycheck is one of degree, not kind.

SecretDreams 3mo ago
Yeah, but it's multiple orders of magnitude apart. Are we also going to start putting LLM engineers to the fire because they're accelerating the enshitification of our world? Probably not.
- LadyCailin 3mo ago
  That’s not a good example, since you can argue that LLMs have utility to humanity. Hiding the cancel button has none, except for rent seeking.
  - angrysaki 3mo ago
    The bigger difference is that the net utility for LLMs could turn out to be massively negative
    - LadyCailin 3mo ago
      Maybe! But that’s certainly debatable. “I thought I was doing the right thing” is anyways a much better defense than “I was just following orders” anyways.
  - SecretDreams 3mo ago
    Rockets have value to humanity too, but some people that worked on rockets ended up working for people that did not want to use rockets to improve human life.
sillyfluke 3mo ago
Obviously the difference of degree on the spectrum between the two in this case does vary greatly, but your comment reminded me of an interview with a journalist who had compiled a collection of interviews with midtier drug dealers in various cartels and one thing that stood out to him was that almost all of them, when asked why they did what they did, would respond by saying that if they didn't someone else would.
nixon_why69 3mo ago

forgetfreeman 3mo ago

"I was just following orders" is not, and has never been, a credible defense of unethical behavior.

littlecranky67 3mo ago
Unless you were in the US. There it always worked.
- inigyou 3mo ago
  It's always worked everywhere. It even worked for the original people who used it, except for a few of them.
Computer0 3mo ago
I see it everyday

deleted 3mo ago

[deleted]

constantius 3mo ago

Saying no is always an option, and this seemed like the opportunity for this. Highly paid devs consistently choosing to do this and using the "following orders"/"food on the table" defense should be socially unacceptable. However, the parent seems to feel no guilt despite the many comments blaming him, so I think protecting his feelings is not necessary.

nixon_why69 3mo ago
You don't know anything about them. Do they have kids? On a visa? Both? Need health insurance? Yes, "just following orders" was not an excuse for the holocaust but we're talking about a subscription here. I for one appreciate the honesty.
ar_lan 3mo ago
90% of my coworkers are H1B and are basically perpetually terrified of being deported. I completely disagree with your assessment. > so I think protecting his feelings is not necessary. No, just the barrage of completely lacking-of-empathy responders need your white-knighting. It’s a good thing you’re here for them.
triceratops 3mo ago
> using the "following orders"/"food on the table" defense should be socially unacceptable...the parent seems to feel no guilt despite the many comments blaming him Wild to compare implementing dark UX patterns to working at a concentration camp. Why not blame the electorate for voting poorly?

account42 3mo ago

Blame should fall on both. The deliberate evil at the top and the banality of evil at the bottom.