3 ms·
no, just no make them pre-pay a multi-trillion cleanup and cancer fund for all the toxic waste, not just the launches but pollution burning up in the atmospher
by ck2 3mo ago
no, just no
make them pre-pay a multi-trillion cleanup and cancer fund for all the toxic waste, not just the launches but pollution burning up in the atmosphere
* https://satellitemap.space/ https://satellitemap.space/
* https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2025-space-orbit-satellites-pollution/ https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2025-space-orbit-satellit...
* https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48787042 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48787042
- usui 3mo agoYou want them to pay a multi-trillion dollar clean-up and cancer fund for car-sized multi-year-service-life satellites burning up in the atmosphere? How much do you want incumbent multi-decade culprits to pay? EDT: I should have clarified I'm not only talking about incumbent satellite companies because people are replying about the launch volume. Think about pollution from oil companies and coal plants and consider how that compares to an aerospace company. How much have polluting companies been fined relative to multiple trillions of dollars?
- ceejayoz 3mo ago> How much do you want incumbent multi-decade culprits to pay? https://www.space.com/space-exploration/launches-spacecraft/launch-monster-spacex-has-lofted-more-satellites-than-everyone-else-in-history-combined https://www.space.com/space-exploration/launches-spacecraft/... "Elon Musk's company has now lofted more spacecraft than the rest of humanity combined — and its lead is likely to grow over the coming months and years." (And most of the other providers don't plan for theirs to burn up within a few years. Giant disposable LEO constellations are new.)
- ck2 3mo agowe cannot have private trillionaires milking "privatize the profits and social the costs" no more, it has to end immediately they aren't just silo-ing their wealth, they are leveraging against societies, funding far-right violent politics against society even the evil Koch-brothers have cancer wings in hospitals around the country, Musk doesn't give a dime to charity, just his own foundation which he controls to only do what he wants to manipulate pre-pay costs to society before damaging society
- bubblegumcrisis 3mo agoalso, criminal murder charges for those who enable actions like, "poisoning a water supply," "creating an opiode epidemic," "giving millions of people cancer, knowingly" I just don't understand why, killing one person is murder, but killing hundreds over many years is, "just the cost of doing business."
- sailingparrot 3mo ago> How much do you want incumbent multi-decade culprits to pay? You are clearly not grasping the magnitude change in how many satellites we used to launch vs how many we are launching nowadays. In 2026, we are putting 10x as many objects in space as we did just 8 years ago, with Starlink being the bulk of it: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/yearly-number-of-objects-launched-into-outer-space https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/yearly-number-of-objects-.... Starlink has 12.5k satellites in space and looking to ramp up massively, the biggest "multi-decade incumbent", oneweb, has 5% as many, about 600.
- rdiddly 3mo agoWe want incumbent multi-decade culprits to also pay appropriately.
- buzzerbetrayed 3mo agoYet you only talk about it when it’s big scary Elon. Cry me a river.
- danny_codes 3mo agoHe's generating a lot more pollution. It's reasonable to want equity around externalities, which is a distinct problem under capitalism.
- rdiddly 3mo agoI talk about it all the time.
- Alpha3031 3mo agoWould be nice for oil and gas companies to pay for all the emissions say, starting when they found out about it and decided to lie to the public. Maybe also bring charges against the PR firms they used since given those same PR firms worked for the tobacco industry clearly they won't stop until there are consequences. Unrealistic, I know, but one can dream.
- redsocksfan45 3mo ago[dead]
- ThrowawayTestr 3mo agoDo you have any proof that starlink satellites are worse than the tons of space debris that enter the atmosphere every day?
- tzs 3mo agoThe satellites aren't worse. It is the rockets that are worse. On the way up they emit various things into the stratosphere, which is about the worst place you can emit stuff when it comes to affecting the atmosphere. It has not been a major problem so far because in its entire history humanity has only launched around 35000 rockets that have reached the stratosphere. Ramp that rate up significantly and it comes something we serious need to worry about. (That's not to say that space debris reentering the atmosphere isn't bad. It also unfortunately deposits various things in the upper atmosphere that we really do not want to put there).
- NetMageSCW 3mo agoYou may want to compare the emissions of all rockets annually to the emissions of jet planes daily and reconsider your position.
- wpm 3mo agoHmm, I noticed you didn't mention car exhaust in your comment. Perhaps you would like to reconsider your position. I am very smart.
- deleted 3mo ago[deleted]
- garbagewoman 3mo agoYeah we should do something about both issues, good on you for bringing that up
- Aachen 3mo agoCan't have nice things because someone else is worse
- ls612 3mo agoThe amount of matter which enters Earth's atmosphere from non-manmade sources is far higher than any conceivable amount of space junk today.
- ceejayoz 3mo agoBut a significantly different makeup than plain old rock dust.
- briandw 3mo agoCitation needed.
- garbagewoman 3mo agoNo citation required, just some light thinking
- ceejayoz 3mo agoI’m not sure that “we don’t make satellites out of rock and ice” needs a cite, but here you go. https://research.noaa.gov/noaa-scientists-link-exotic-metal-particles-in-the-upper-atmosphere-to-rockets-satellites/ https://research.noaa.gov/noaa-scientists-link-exotic-metal-... > Niobium and hafnium do not occur as free elements in nature, but are refined from mineral ores. They are used in semiconductors and superalloys. > In addition to these two unusual elements, a significant number of particles contained copper, lithium and aluminum at concentrations far exceeding the abundance found in meteorics, or ‘space dust.’ “The combination of aluminum and copper, plus niobium and hafnium, which are used in heat-resistant, high-performance alloys, pointed us to the aerospace industry,’’ Murphy said.
- ls612 3mo agoIt is gonna be mostly aluminum, lithium, and silicon isn't it? Nothing too extraordinary or weird.