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No, no, never. Subscriptions never benefit the consumer. They all work exactly the same way: - Get the user hooked into their ecosystem - Slowly make the serv

No, no, never. Subscriptions never benefit the consumer. They all work exactly the same way: - Get the user hooked into their ecosystem - Slowly make the service worse / more expensive / different over time - The user is paying for a subscription which feels like an investment, so they put up with more crap than they would otherwise. Trust me. If you have a subscription for something, and you like it, it will change under your feet. It will get worse, and in effect, it will be taken from you. I'm not paying for the subscriptions. If everyone moves towards subscriptions, I'll move into a shack in the woods. I don't care. I don't want your subscriptions. If you think subscriptions are a good idea I don't want to hear from you, and I wish you had no say in how anything was built. [edit] If the counter-point is that mobile apps will suffer, then good. I don't like or any want any mobile apps whatsoever.

dabluck 3mo ago
If you don't like or want any mobile apps whatsoever, I completely agree you should not pay for them.
ur_tech_friend 3mo ago
This feels backwards—if the service gets worse, simply cancel your subscription. If it were a one-time purchase, wouldn't that encourage the service provider to make it worse over time because they've already taken your money?
- fusslo 3mo ago
  I agree with you in theory > If it were a one-time purchase, wouldn't that encourage the service provider to make it worse over time because they've already taken your money? Couldn't it encourage the provider to make it better because their revenue comes from new customers? > if the service gets worse, simply cancel your subscription. There's plenty of examples of subscriptions that are nearly impossible to cancel, or have a giant fee for cancelling early. Adobe, Comcast, siriusxm spring to mind. Anecdotally, streaming services are partly funded by people who subscribe for a particular film/tv show and just never cancel.
- zetsurin 3mo ago
  That's the rub, numerous times you can't cancel until the x is done (for gym memberships it used to be a whole year). Or alternatively look at prime cancelling is made difficult. Another issue is they tend to get more unnoticed as time goes on and little additional fees start creating in. Just avoid subscriptions when possible has served me well
- miyoji 3mo ago
  > This feels backwards—if the service gets worse, simply cancel your subscription. It's not backwards. I've canceled many subscriptions because software has gotten worse. I occasionally check back in with those services to see if they've gotten better, or at least back to as good as they used to be and they are always, inevitably, worse. I'd love to hear about a subscription that gets better over time but I haven't had that experience. I've also heard how product managers talk about subscribed users and I don't like being thought of that way by the businesses I give money to.
- JKCalhoun 3mo ago
  I have not hiked this month. Note to self: cancel AllTrails subscription. I might hike this coming weekend. Note to self: reinstate AllTrails subscription. etc.
etrautmann 3mo ago
I’m with you. I generally refuse. There are way too many things that I’d like to use extremely intermittently that beg for recurring revenue. I just opt out for the most part, aside from a tiny subset of indispensable apps.
- JKCalhoun 3mo ago
  Yep. "But the subscription is so low!" We're being nickeled and dimed into poverty.
Brendinooo 3mo ago
As I said in a different thread[0], the fact that some subscriptions are predatory doesn't mean subscriptions are necessarily predatory. > If you have a subscription for something, and you like it, it will change under your feet. It will get worse, and in effect, it will be taken from you. Then I can move on and find something else. If I really think I can't, then it's probably providing me with something I find valuable enough to keep. That idea has its limits (again, I don't disagree that subscription services can be predatory) but it's certainly true sometimes. >If the counter-point is that mobile apps will suffer, then good. I don't like or any want any mobile apps whatsoever. Right. And if you don't like or want magazines, you shouldn't subscribe to magazines. But there's no reason to think that because you personally do not like magazines, no one else should like them and no one else can find value in them. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48846637 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48846637
- inexcf 3mo ago
  >As I said in a different thread[0], the fact that some subscriptions are predatory doesn't mean subscriptions are necessarily predatory. "Some" is doing a lot of work in that sentence. Subscriptions are structurally designed to extract payment for non-use. the whole point of the model is to be predatory. You pre-pay for some allotment of resources but get nothing back for unused resources. And the main profit comes from the gap between what you paid for and the actual usage. And that's just in the best case scenario there the company is not running at a loss just to squeeze you later even harder. The entire model only works if people throw their money into the void. If a provider genuinely wanted to cover the costs my usage imposes on them, they would bill me for usage. That's the honest version: you used X, here's the bill for X. Instead, subscriptions deliberately decouple what I pay from what I consume, and they always decouple it in the vendor's favor, never mine. I never (well i think Kagi[0] actually is different, one outlier) get a refund for the month I didn't watch anything or the API calls I didn't make. [0]: https://getlago.substack.com/p/why-kagi-launched-no-use-no-pay https://getlago.substack.com/p/why-kagi-launched-no-use-no-p...
  - Brendinooo 3mo ago
    >You pre-pay for some allotment of resources but get nothing back for unused resources. I dunno. This just doesn't quite compute to me as some universal principle. I paid $30 for a year of Strong (an iOS fitness app), for example. What do you see as the "allotment of resources" there? They're delivering maintenance upgrades and feature releases periodically that I'll use any time I log a workout; the app runs on a phone that I own; the data is presumably sitting on a server of theirs, so it needs to be ready for whenever I want to use it. I've logged ~40 workouts so far, so let's hope I stay consistent and end up with 80 for the year. That's ~38 cents per workout. I just don't feel ripped off here, especially since I moved off of a fitness app that I liked less and cost $50/year, the price has stayed the same over four years while improving steadily, and I'm not aware of anything that does what I want for a better price. I'm not sure I'd even want some kind of metering system; psychologically I don't like the idea that I'd have to spend a second thinking about if I want to pay more to log more workouts.
jmpz 3mo ago
I don't get the connection between a subscription and getting a user hooked, making the service worse, or ensure worsening of the service. All of these things can be true, all without a subscription. Not having revenue certainly makes it impossible to sustain a business to work on a service, without some other kind of monetization path, like ads, or data harvesting and sale.
Funes- 3mo ago
Hmm... To my mind, the best way to commercialize software is the old way: pay for the binaries of every major version. This, of course, bars the option of using the software online, and makes pirating it easier, but I think it's the most fair.
MintPaw 3mo ago
This is way too absolute a point. There's services like water and internet service you're effectively subscribed too that don't get worse. There's obvious efficiencies that can be gained from regularizing demand with subscriptions. Amazon Prime is another example of a something I've been subscribed to for over a decade and I don't feel has gotten worse.
- morgoo 3mo ago
  One of the earliest lines in the article: > I believe subscriptions for mobile apps are the best thing that has ever happened for both indie developers and iPhone users. The article isn't extolling the virtue of paying for a utility!
- JKCalhoun 3mo ago
  Subscriptions are giving the seller permission to dip into my bank account every month whether I used the product or not. At least when I pay monthly rent my stuff (and usually me) are actually in the unit the whole time.
Gud 3mo ago
Then how do you pay?
- everdrive 3mo ago
  For mobile apps? I don't. Mobile apps are generally worse than anything you can get on a real computer. I use as few mobile apps as possible. I certainly don't add additional mobile apps unless there's no other choice. (ie, OTP app from work)

dabluck 3mo ago

If you don't like or want any mobile apps whatsoever, I completely agree you should not pay for them.

ur_tech_friend 3mo ago

This feels backwards—if the service gets worse, simply cancel your subscription. If it were a one-time purchase, wouldn't that encourage the service provider to make it worse over time because they've already taken your money?

fusslo 3mo ago
I agree with you in theory > If it were a one-time purchase, wouldn't that encourage the service provider to make it worse over time because they've already taken your money? Couldn't it encourage the provider to make it better because their revenue comes from new customers? > if the service gets worse, simply cancel your subscription. There's plenty of examples of subscriptions that are nearly impossible to cancel, or have a giant fee for cancelling early. Adobe, Comcast, siriusxm spring to mind. Anecdotally, streaming services are partly funded by people who subscribe for a particular film/tv show and just never cancel.
zetsurin 3mo ago
That's the rub, numerous times you can't cancel until the x is done (for gym memberships it used to be a whole year). Or alternatively look at prime cancelling is made difficult. Another issue is they tend to get more unnoticed as time goes on and little additional fees start creating in. Just avoid subscriptions when possible has served me well
miyoji 3mo ago
> This feels backwards—if the service gets worse, simply cancel your subscription. It's not backwards. I've canceled many subscriptions because software has gotten worse. I occasionally check back in with those services to see if they've gotten better, or at least back to as good as they used to be and they are always, inevitably, worse. I'd love to hear about a subscription that gets better over time but I haven't had that experience. I've also heard how product managers talk about subscribed users and I don't like being thought of that way by the businesses I give money to.
JKCalhoun 3mo ago
I have not hiked this month. Note to self: cancel AllTrails subscription. I might hike this coming weekend. Note to self: reinstate AllTrails subscription. etc.

etrautmann 3mo ago

I’m with you. I generally refuse. There are way too many things that I’d like to use extremely intermittently that beg for recurring revenue. I just opt out for the most part, aside from a tiny subset of indispensable apps.

JKCalhoun 3mo ago
Yep. "But the subscription is so low!" We're being nickeled and dimed into poverty.

Brendinooo 3mo ago

As I said in a different thread[0], the fact that some subscriptions are predatory doesn't mean subscriptions are necessarily predatory. > If you have a subscription for something, and you like it, it will change under your feet. It will get worse, and in effect, it will be taken from you. Then I can move on and find something else. If I really think I can't, then it's probably providing me with something I find valuable enough to keep. That idea has its limits (again, I don't disagree that subscription services can be predatory) but it's certainly true sometimes. >If the counter-point is that mobile apps will suffer, then good. I don't like or any want any mobile apps whatsoever. Right. And if you don't like or want magazines, you shouldn't subscribe to magazines. But there's no reason to think that because you personally do not like magazines, no one else should like them and no one else can find value in them. [0]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48846637 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48846637

inexcf 3mo ago
>As I said in a different thread[0], the fact that some subscriptions are predatory doesn't mean subscriptions are necessarily predatory. "Some" is doing a lot of work in that sentence. Subscriptions are structurally designed to extract payment for non-use. the whole point of the model is to be predatory. You pre-pay for some allotment of resources but get nothing back for unused resources. And the main profit comes from the gap between what you paid for and the actual usage. And that's just in the best case scenario there the company is not running at a loss just to squeeze you later even harder. The entire model only works if people throw their money into the void. If a provider genuinely wanted to cover the costs my usage imposes on them, they would bill me for usage. That's the honest version: you used X, here's the bill for X. Instead, subscriptions deliberately decouple what I pay from what I consume, and they always decouple it in the vendor's favor, never mine. I never (well i think Kagi[0] actually is different, one outlier) get a refund for the month I didn't watch anything or the API calls I didn't make. [0]: https://getlago.substack.com/p/why-kagi-launched-no-use-no-pay https://getlago.substack.com/p/why-kagi-launched-no-use-no-p...
- Brendinooo 3mo ago
  >You pre-pay for some allotment of resources but get nothing back for unused resources. I dunno. This just doesn't quite compute to me as some universal principle. I paid $30 for a year of Strong (an iOS fitness app), for example. What do you see as the "allotment of resources" there? They're delivering maintenance upgrades and feature releases periodically that I'll use any time I log a workout; the app runs on a phone that I own; the data is presumably sitting on a server of theirs, so it needs to be ready for whenever I want to use it. I've logged ~40 workouts so far, so let's hope I stay consistent and end up with 80 for the year. That's ~38 cents per workout. I just don't feel ripped off here, especially since I moved off of a fitness app that I liked less and cost $50/year, the price has stayed the same over four years while improving steadily, and I'm not aware of anything that does what I want for a better price. I'm not sure I'd even want some kind of metering system; psychologically I don't like the idea that I'd have to spend a second thinking about if I want to pay more to log more workouts.

jmpz 3mo ago

I don't get the connection between a subscription and getting a user hooked, making the service worse, or ensure worsening of the service. All of these things can be true, all without a subscription. Not having revenue certainly makes it impossible to sustain a business to work on a service, without some other kind of monetization path, like ads, or data harvesting and sale.

Funes- 3mo ago

Hmm... To my mind, the best way to commercialize software is the old way: pay for the binaries of every major version. This, of course, bars the option of using the software online, and makes pirating it easier, but I think it's the most fair.

MintPaw 3mo ago

This is way too absolute a point. There's services like water and internet service you're effectively subscribed too that don't get worse. There's obvious efficiencies that can be gained from regularizing demand with subscriptions. Amazon Prime is another example of a something I've been subscribed to for over a decade and I don't feel has gotten worse.

morgoo 3mo ago
One of the earliest lines in the article: > I believe subscriptions for mobile apps are the best thing that has ever happened for both indie developers and iPhone users. The article isn't extolling the virtue of paying for a utility!
JKCalhoun 3mo ago
Subscriptions are giving the seller permission to dip into my bank account every month whether I used the product or not. At least when I pay monthly rent my stuff (and usually me) are actually in the unit the whole time.

Gud 3mo ago

Then how do you pay?

everdrive 3mo ago
For mobile apps? I don't. Mobile apps are generally worse than anything you can get on a real computer. I use as few mobile apps as possible. I certainly don't add additional mobile apps unless there's no other choice. (ie, OTP app from work)