4 ms·

EPA already set a Maximum Contaminant Level of 4.0 ppt. That's why they moved most PFAS production to China.

fcarraldo 4mo ago
In drinking water, yes. And the EPA coordinated a "voluntary" phase-out of PFAS in packaging, but it is not enforced. Is there a limit in food, which is what this petition was about?
toomuchtodo 4mo ago
Another issue is that sewage sludge and "biosolids", unknowingly containing PFAS, is/was being used as farm fertilizer, causing some farms to have to be written off for food production. I would expect many more farms in the future to be found with PFAS soil levels exceeding what is safe to produce food with. The only way to find out is to test. Maine listened to farmers and confronted the PFAS crisis - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47509448 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47509448 - February 2026 (0 comments) Maine Is a Warning for America's PFAS Future - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40007582 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40007582 - April 2024 (0 comments) Toxic Chemical Contaminant PFAS Found on Maine Farms - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20142212 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20142212 - June 2019 (1 comment) > The practice of spreading sludge as a soil amendment has been a common practice in Maine and across the nation for decades. Land application of sludge material occurred long before there was knowledge that it may contain PFAS or the health implications of PFAS. EPA Fact Sheet: Draft Sewage Sludge Risk Assessment for PFOA and PFOS: Information for Farmers - https://www.epa.gov/system/files/documents/2025-01/fact-sheet-farmers-draft-sewage-sludge-risk-assessment-pfoa-pfos.pdf https://www.epa.gov/system/files/documents/2025-01/fact-shee... - January 2025 EPA Basic Information about Biosolids: https://19january2021snapshot.epa.gov/biosolids/basic-information-about-biosolids_.html https://19january2021snapshot.epa.gov/biosolids/basic-inform...
- SoftTalker 4mo ago
  I can't believe that we are still using sewage sludge as fertilizer. People dump anything down the drain. I remember this being an issue 30-40 years ago with PCBs.
  - toomuchtodo 4mo ago
    From industrial sources, in some cases, no less. Paper mills, tanneries, etc. Silver lining is that these farms are solar PV installations of the future, when possible, to give the land a few decades to recover from contamination. I presume you can pair this solar in an agrivoltaics model with grasses or other flora they can absorb and remediate subject contamination, but do not know enough to speak with authority on that. Maine farmers impacted by PFAS pivot to harvesting solar power - https://www.newscentermaine.com/article/tech/science/environment/pfas/stone-farm-pfas-solar-power-sun-energy-toxic-forever-chemicals/97-087ee407-772d-4cd3-b83f-3bbdc46be6e0 https://www.newscentermaine.com/article/tech/science/environ... - August 22nd, 2024 > Maine farmland made worthless by PFAS chemicals could be put back into production again through harvesting the power of the sun. > Last month, regulators approved new rules following 2023 state legislation that calls for renewable energy generated on contaminated land, clearing the way for the development of thousands of megawatts of new clean power. (brownfields are a great place to cite solar generation) EPA Brownfields Renewable Energy Siting - https://www.epa.gov/system/files/documents/2024-08/brownfields-checklist-draft-fill-072924_508_0.pdf https://www.epa.gov/system/files/documents/2024-08/brownfiel... NREL Solar Development on Contaminated and Disturbed Lands - https://web.archive.org/web/20250218192949/https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy14osti/58485.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20250218192949/https://www.nrel.... Plant-based material can remediate PFAS, new research suggests - https://www.niehs.nih.gov/news/factor/2022/9/science-highlights/pfas-remediation https://www.niehs.nih.gov/news/factor/2022/9/science-highlig...
    - cucumber3732842 4mo ago
      How much of this is real and how much of this is people stretching facts to get their farmland construed as polluted to make the solar development viable because over the years people like you have construed the laws and rules to punish greenfield development and agricultural redevelopment?
      - toomuchtodo 4mo ago
        Is your argument farmers are lying about their farmland contamination to develop solar instead of selling this land for development or development? Please provide evidence and citations this is the case, versus documented contamination of hundreds of farms (in the case of farms in Maine, Michigan, Wisconsin, Alabama and Florida). "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." It seems very unlikely this is fraud, versus legitimate measurements of substances causing harm and requiring the land to be taken out of agriculture use. From Biosolids: mix human waste with toxic chemicals, then spread on crops - https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/05/biosolids-toxic-chemicals-pollution https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/05/biosolid... - October 5th, 2019 > Meanwhile, sewage sludge is behind a widening PFAS crisis that has contaminated farms in Maine, Michigan, Wisconsin, Alabama and Florida. PFAS, or “forever chemicals”, are linked to a range of serious health problems like cancer, thyroid disorders, immune disorders and low birth weight. The chemicals are a product used to make non-stick or water-resistant products, and are found in everything from raincoats to dental floss to food packaging. > Maine’s testing of 44 fields sprayed with biosolids earlier this year consistently found alarming PFAS levels in the ground, cows and farmers’ blood, which forced one dairy farm to shut down. > “They’re finding kilograms of PFAS in sewage sludge when nanograms are harmful to humans, so you can’t regulate it as a fertilizer,” said Laura Orlando, a civil engineer who tracks problems with biosolids. > A University of North Carolina study found 75% of people living near farms that spread biosolids experienced health issues like burning eyes, nausea, vomiting, boils and rashes, while others have contracted MRSA, a penicillin-resistant “superbug”. > In South Carolina, sludge containing high levels of carcinogenic PCBs was spread on cropland, and in Georgia sludge killed cows. Biosolids are also thought to be partly responsible for toxic algae blooms in the Great Lakes and Florida, and biosolid treatment centers regularly pollute the air around them.
- appplication 4mo ago
  I have no issue repurposing biological waste as fertilizer, that’s fine. But sewage is not just biological waste. It’s got all sorts of other shit in it that’s not suitable for reentry into the food chain. This isn’t a practice that should be allowed anywhere. It’s not like they can’t grow crops without it, they’re just gaming costs.
  - toomuchtodo 4mo ago
    That's the challenge. The human waste stream is not just biological waste. It is PFAS, it is residual pharma and hormones the human body passes, it is recreational drugs, etc. It is not fit for reuse imho (as a layman, of course, but I believe the evidence strongly supports this assertion), it should be processed with plasma gasification to be made inert and the slag used in road/tarmac applications or landfilled. Why do we do not do that? Well, that costs money, money we are unwilling to spend (versus dumping a hazmat product onto ag land, because it is cheaper). We learned this with BSE (why you don't feed cows to cows, prion contamination), we learned this with PFAS, we learn this a lot (ag supply chain weaknesses due to prioritizing cost over safety). We just don't seem to care enough to change the system. Caveat emptor. InEnTec says its plasma technology effectively destroys PFAS - https://www.wastetodaymagazine.com/news/inentec-says-its-plasma-technology-effectively-destroys-pfas/ https://www.wastetodaymagazine.com/news/inentec-says-its-pla... - August 23rd, 2024 Biosolids: mix human waste with toxic chemicals, then spread on crops - https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/05/biosolids-toxic-chemicals-pollution https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/05/biosolid... - October 5th, 2019 https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=plasma%20gasification%20toomuchtodo&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bovine_spongiform_encephalopathy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bovine_spongiform_encephalopat...

In drinking water, yes. And the EPA coordinated a "voluntary" phase-out of PFAS in packaging, but it is not enforced. Is there a limit in food, which is what this petition was about?

toomuchtodo 4mo ago

Another issue is that sewage sludge and "biosolids", unknowingly containing PFAS, is/was being used as farm fertilizer, causing some farms to have to be written off for food production. I would expect many more farms in the future to be found with PFAS soil levels exceeding what is safe to produce food with. The only way to find out is to test. Maine listened to farmers and confronted the PFAS crisis - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47509448 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=47509448 - February 2026 (0 comments) Maine Is a Warning for America's PFAS Future - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40007582 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40007582 - April 2024 (0 comments) Toxic Chemical Contaminant PFAS Found on Maine Farms - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20142212 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20142212 - June 2019 (1 comment) > The practice of spreading sludge as a soil amendment has been a common practice in Maine and across the nation for decades. Land application of sludge material occurred long before there was knowledge that it may contain PFAS or the health implications of PFAS. EPA Fact Sheet: Draft Sewage Sludge Risk Assessment for PFOA and PFOS: Information for Farmers - https://www.epa.gov/system/files/documents/2025-01/fact-sheet-farmers-draft-sewage-sludge-risk-assessment-pfoa-pfos.pdf https://www.epa.gov/system/files/documents/2025-01/fact-shee... - January 2025 EPA Basic Information about Biosolids: https://19january2021snapshot.epa.gov/biosolids/basic-information-about-biosolids_.html https://19january2021snapshot.epa.gov/biosolids/basic-inform...

SoftTalker 4mo ago
I can't believe that we are still using sewage sludge as fertilizer. People dump anything down the drain. I remember this being an issue 30-40 years ago with PCBs.
- toomuchtodo 4mo ago
  From industrial sources, in some cases, no less. Paper mills, tanneries, etc. Silver lining is that these farms are solar PV installations of the future, when possible, to give the land a few decades to recover from contamination. I presume you can pair this solar in an agrivoltaics model with grasses or other flora they can absorb and remediate subject contamination, but do not know enough to speak with authority on that. Maine farmers impacted by PFAS pivot to harvesting solar power - https://www.newscentermaine.com/article/tech/science/environment/pfas/stone-farm-pfas-solar-power-sun-energy-toxic-forever-chemicals/97-087ee407-772d-4cd3-b83f-3bbdc46be6e0 https://www.newscentermaine.com/article/tech/science/environ... - August 22nd, 2024 > Maine farmland made worthless by PFAS chemicals could be put back into production again through harvesting the power of the sun. > Last month, regulators approved new rules following 2023 state legislation that calls for renewable energy generated on contaminated land, clearing the way for the development of thousands of megawatts of new clean power. (brownfields are a great place to cite solar generation) EPA Brownfields Renewable Energy Siting - https://www.epa.gov/system/files/documents/2024-08/brownfields-checklist-draft-fill-072924_508_0.pdf https://www.epa.gov/system/files/documents/2024-08/brownfiel... NREL Solar Development on Contaminated and Disturbed Lands - https://web.archive.org/web/20250218192949/https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy14osti/58485.pdf https://web.archive.org/web/20250218192949/https://www.nrel.... Plant-based material can remediate PFAS, new research suggests - https://www.niehs.nih.gov/news/factor/2022/9/science-highlights/pfas-remediation https://www.niehs.nih.gov/news/factor/2022/9/science-highlig...
  - cucumber3732842 4mo ago
    How much of this is real and how much of this is people stretching facts to get their farmland construed as polluted to make the solar development viable because over the years people like you have construed the laws and rules to punish greenfield development and agricultural redevelopment?
    - toomuchtodo 4mo ago
      Is your argument farmers are lying about their farmland contamination to develop solar instead of selling this land for development or development? Please provide evidence and citations this is the case, versus documented contamination of hundreds of farms (in the case of farms in Maine, Michigan, Wisconsin, Alabama and Florida). "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." It seems very unlikely this is fraud, versus legitimate measurements of substances causing harm and requiring the land to be taken out of agriculture use. From Biosolids: mix human waste with toxic chemicals, then spread on crops - https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/05/biosolids-toxic-chemicals-pollution https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/05/biosolid... - October 5th, 2019 > Meanwhile, sewage sludge is behind a widening PFAS crisis that has contaminated farms in Maine, Michigan, Wisconsin, Alabama and Florida. PFAS, or “forever chemicals”, are linked to a range of serious health problems like cancer, thyroid disorders, immune disorders and low birth weight. The chemicals are a product used to make non-stick or water-resistant products, and are found in everything from raincoats to dental floss to food packaging. > Maine’s testing of 44 fields sprayed with biosolids earlier this year consistently found alarming PFAS levels in the ground, cows and farmers’ blood, which forced one dairy farm to shut down. > “They’re finding kilograms of PFAS in sewage sludge when nanograms are harmful to humans, so you can’t regulate it as a fertilizer,” said Laura Orlando, a civil engineer who tracks problems with biosolids. > A University of North Carolina study found 75% of people living near farms that spread biosolids experienced health issues like burning eyes, nausea, vomiting, boils and rashes, while others have contracted MRSA, a penicillin-resistant “superbug”. > In South Carolina, sludge containing high levels of carcinogenic PCBs was spread on cropland, and in Georgia sludge killed cows. Biosolids are also thought to be partly responsible for toxic algae blooms in the Great Lakes and Florida, and biosolid treatment centers regularly pollute the air around them.
appplication 4mo ago
I have no issue repurposing biological waste as fertilizer, that’s fine. But sewage is not just biological waste. It’s got all sorts of other shit in it that’s not suitable for reentry into the food chain. This isn’t a practice that should be allowed anywhere. It’s not like they can’t grow crops without it, they’re just gaming costs.
- toomuchtodo 4mo ago
  That's the challenge. The human waste stream is not just biological waste. It is PFAS, it is residual pharma and hormones the human body passes, it is recreational drugs, etc. It is not fit for reuse imho (as a layman, of course, but I believe the evidence strongly supports this assertion), it should be processed with plasma gasification to be made inert and the slag used in road/tarmac applications or landfilled. Why do we do not do that? Well, that costs money, money we are unwilling to spend (versus dumping a hazmat product onto ag land, because it is cheaper). We learned this with BSE (why you don't feed cows to cows, prion contamination), we learned this with PFAS, we learn this a lot (ag supply chain weaknesses due to prioritizing cost over safety). We just don't seem to care enough to change the system. Caveat emptor. InEnTec says its plasma technology effectively destroys PFAS - https://www.wastetodaymagazine.com/news/inentec-says-its-plasma-technology-effectively-destroys-pfas/ https://www.wastetodaymagazine.com/news/inentec-says-its-pla... - August 23rd, 2024 Biosolids: mix human waste with toxic chemicals, then spread on crops - https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/05/biosolids-toxic-chemicals-pollution https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/oct/05/biosolid... - October 5th, 2019 https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=plasma%20gasification%20toomuchtodo&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bovine_spongiform_encephalopathy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bovine_spongiform_encephalopat...