4 ms·

Excellent anecdote. I'm not sure if you're making a judgement about their behavior at the team event. I'm an English native speaker, new in Germany, and learni

Excellent anecdote. I'm not sure if you're making a judgement about their behavior at the team event. I'm an English native speaker, new in Germany, and learning German. I personally find it really annoying and awkward when other foreigners come into German social situations and expect or push them to speak English. - What right do I have as the foreigner to intrude and get them to speak English? - Social life in another language has it's own shared culture, jokes, and social cues. It's not fair or realistic to make people give that all up because some foreigner walked near the circle. - It's my problem that I'm not yet fluent. It's not their problem that they're not speaking English. - Some people are shy about their English skills, and they do not want to be pushed to speak English in front of others, in a group social setting. - If you want exposure and practice, these are the golden opportunities! Take a humble learners position. Be quiet, understand as much as you can, and say what little bits you can, in German, not in English. Then study, study, study as much as you can in your time alone. I hear fellow foreigners bemoaning the fact that they can't speak German yet, but these same people will inadvertently push English into every social situation they walk into. This just doesn't work. If you want to learn the language of the land, you have to let them speak it. I find Germans are incredibly friendly and welcoming, especially when you come in humbly, trying to learn, and don't push everyone to speak English.

ItsYan 3mo ago
On the other hand, the Brits will happily switch from their accent/dialect to accommodate a foreigner. No such thing has happened to me in Germany.
- thevillagechief 3mo ago
  My experience in Scotland says different. Unless the Scots don't count. Or maybe they just can't help their accent.
mstaoru 3mo ago
I'm definitely making a judgement :) It is not a social situation, but a work-related event in an international team, where people have varying German language skills (some have almost none, like me). In a true social situation, of course, I will not expect by default a cashier in a shop or a clerk in a bank to speak English to me (though it's appreciated). > understand as much as you can, and say what little bits you can, in German, not in English. Then study, study, study as much as you can in your time alone That's the whole point to add to "why people leave Germany". It's a difficult language and not everyone have time to "study, study, study". It leads to isolation, expat bubble, and leaving.
customguy 3mo ago
As a German, don't respect Germans who move abroad and never learn the local language because they "don't have to", either. I cut a lot more slack for people who come here, but I can't help but notice this sense of entitlement to Germany I don't see an equivalent to with other countries. There's at least one person in this thread who outright said nah, knowing English is enough, as if Germans better accept that. Honestly, wtf?
- mstaoru 3mo ago
  Let me play a bit of devil's advocate here. This is not what I really think but it's a point that has merit. Germany is in deep demographic and economic crisis, mostly due to talent shortage. If it has any ambition to maintain being #3 economy (by GDP), while simultaneously paying cushy pensions to a growing pool of retirees, it must either very quickly build talent (but it has a very limited pool due to demographic), or accept high levels of immigration. The US is in better position because, let's face it, English is the widest spoken language professionally. If Germany's pitch is just "please come here to work for less money, speak German day #1, and enjoy batshit crazy bureaucracy with years to process residency", it's just not going to work. Something has to give.
  - customguy 3mo ago
    That's like Germans moving to a poor country and being annoying to the waiter, then going "do you want my money or not?" When it comes to respecting someone -- which is what I'm talking about -- that just makes it worse. > Germany is in deep demographic and economic crisis, mostly due to talent shortage. If it has any ambition to maintain being #3 economy Countries don't have aims or ambitions, people in them do. If someone acts entitled and assumes I have to accomodate their laziness forever, not just until they'll get settled in, I won't like them, and there won't be much warmth between us. If that dooms the nation, that's totally fine. You don't make friends by blackmail, but by being friendly.
    - mstaoru 3mo ago
      > accomodate their laziness forever, not just until they'll get settled in Do expats in Germany walk around with "I've been in Germany X months" clock on their foreheads? :) Of course you learn eventually... some faster than others. And some not fast enough before "maybe I should just work in Switzerland" kicks in.

ItsYan 3mo ago

On the other hand, the Brits will happily switch from their accent/dialect to accommodate a foreigner. No such thing has happened to me in Germany.

thevillagechief 3mo ago
My experience in Scotland says different. Unless the Scots don't count. Or maybe they just can't help their accent.

mstaoru 3mo ago

I'm definitely making a judgement :) It is not a social situation, but a work-related event in an international team, where people have varying German language skills (some have almost none, like me). In a true social situation, of course, I will not expect by default a cashier in a shop or a clerk in a bank to speak English to me (though it's appreciated). > understand as much as you can, and say what little bits you can, in German, not in English. Then study, study, study as much as you can in your time alone That's the whole point to add to "why people leave Germany". It's a difficult language and not everyone have time to "study, study, study". It leads to isolation, expat bubble, and leaving.

customguy 3mo ago

As a German, don't respect Germans who move abroad and never learn the local language because they "don't have to", either. I cut a lot more slack for people who come here, but I can't help but notice this sense of entitlement to Germany I don't see an equivalent to with other countries. There's at least one person in this thread who outright said nah, knowing English is enough, as if Germans better accept that. Honestly, wtf?

mstaoru 3mo ago
Let me play a bit of devil's advocate here. This is not what I really think but it's a point that has merit. Germany is in deep demographic and economic crisis, mostly due to talent shortage. If it has any ambition to maintain being #3 economy (by GDP), while simultaneously paying cushy pensions to a growing pool of retirees, it must either very quickly build talent (but it has a very limited pool due to demographic), or accept high levels of immigration. The US is in better position because, let's face it, English is the widest spoken language professionally. If Germany's pitch is just "please come here to work for less money, speak German day #1, and enjoy batshit crazy bureaucracy with years to process residency", it's just not going to work. Something has to give.
- customguy 3mo ago
  That's like Germans moving to a poor country and being annoying to the waiter, then going "do you want my money or not?" When it comes to respecting someone -- which is what I'm talking about -- that just makes it worse. > Germany is in deep demographic and economic crisis, mostly due to talent shortage. If it has any ambition to maintain being #3 economy Countries don't have aims or ambitions, people in them do. If someone acts entitled and assumes I have to accomodate their laziness forever, not just until they'll get settled in, I won't like them, and there won't be much warmth between us. If that dooms the nation, that's totally fine. You don't make friends by blackmail, but by being friendly.
  - mstaoru 3mo ago
    > accomodate their laziness forever, not just until they'll get settled in Do expats in Germany walk around with "I've been in Germany X months" clock on their foreheads? :) Of course you learn eventually... some faster than others. And some not fast enough before "maybe I should just work in Switzerland" kicks in.