3 ms·

99.99% of the radiation is gone after 300 years, so you don't really have to.

Joel_Mckay 3mo ago
"Plutonium-239 has a half-life of 24110 years" There are dozens of other decay products with various hazardous properties. Scientific hubris can't be made safe, and societies have proven irresponsible with fuel life-cycle management. =3
- consensus1 3mo ago
  And why am I supposed to care? Because plutonium sounds scary?
  - Joel_Mckay 3mo ago
    >And why am I supposed to care? Indeed, one persons opinion is not really all that important, but one is alive because of decisions made long before they were born. >Because plutonium sounds scary? Which of the 14 isotopes are you referring too? In general, synthetic isotopes unknown in our evolutionary biology are far more toxic in trace exposures. Some people don't get a chance to learn form their mistakes. Best of luck =3
    - chickenbig 3mo ago
      > Which of the 14 isotopes are you referring too? In general, synthetic isotopes unknown in our evolutionary biology are far more toxic https://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/aug/09/rorycarroll https://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/aug/09/rorycarroll . Or does the biochemistry of Pu particularly depend on the isotope?
      - Joel_Mckay 3mo ago
        It is a complex answer, and heavily depends on decay product chemistry. =3 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK599402/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK599402/
        chickenbig 3mo ago
        > It is a complex answer, and heavily depends on decay product chemistry. The source you provided does not agree with that assessment. It is purely radiation damage. The Pu-238 (half life 87.7 years) and Pu-239 (half-life 24,110 years) experiments. plutonium-induced health effects are considered to be the result of energy deposited by alpha particle emissions in tissues that retain plutonium for extended periods (i.e., lung, bone, liver following inhalation exposure). Similar health effects would be expected from any alpha-emitting source that would result in similar cumulative tissue-specific radiation dose and dose rate. They seem fairly certain that it is alpha particle damage, not chemistry.
        Joel_Mckay 3mo ago
        The toxicology of soluble heavy-metal bioavailable material is a well understood area of research, and can bioaccumulate in humans several times higher than background if a food chain allows biomagnification of a contaminant. The publication assumes the reader has first year biology, and will understand test subject mortality data implications. I would recommend studying the story of Polychlorinated biphenyls in whales, Mercury levels in salmon, and PFAS in the Veritasium hosts blood. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC2eSujzrUY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC2eSujzrUY "Particle Accelerator vs Egg" is a great demonstration of purely irradiated cell decomposition, and is great entertainment for all ages. =3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CiLov03IX4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CiLov03IX4
- chickenbig 3mo ago
  > "Plutonium-239 has a half-life of 24110 years" Great, that means it is not very radioactive, and an alpha emitter, so unless you ingest it is not particularly harmful. > societies have proven irresponsible with fuel life-cycle management Do you have evidence that the spent nuclear fuel from power stations has killed people?
  - Joel_Mckay 3mo ago
    >Do you have evidence that the spent nuclear fuel from power stations has killed people? Did you mean intentional Polonium 210 exposure from decay chains, medical mistakes, or unintentional worker exposure to hot garbage. I could have a look for you, but Google should already give several reasonable results to keep one entertained. =3
    - chickenbig 3mo ago
      > intentional Polonium 210 from decay chains What do you mean "decay chains"? Po-210 decays to Pb-206 which is stable. So you mean Po-210 decay. Let's shut down the chemical industry because someone attempted to poison The Skripals. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_Skripal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_... . > medical mistakes Spent nuclear fuel is generally not used for medical isotopes. They specially prepare samples for irradiation to not have to use reprocessing, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt-60#Production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt-60#Production . > I could have a look for you It would be illuminating to see what you find reasonable.
      - Joel_Mckay 3mo ago
        1. Uranium miners have high risk of lung cancer due to radon gas and decay products. https://www.cnsc-ccsn.gc.ca/eng/resources/research/canadian-uranium-worker-study/ https://www.cnsc-ccsn.gc.ca/eng/resources/research/canadian-... 2. Workers exposed to alpha-emitting materials like plutonium/uranium show increased risk of lung cancer https://www.ovid.com/jnls/epidem/fulltext/10.1097/ede.0000000000000684~risk-of-lung-cancer-mortality-in-nuclear-workers-from https://www.ovid.com/jnls/epidem/fulltext/10.1097/ede.000000... 3. Plant operators within heavily regulated work areas are usually unaffected, and show an odd statistical wellness anomaly inconsistent with control groups. However, if one includes accidents/events with collateral impact: https://www.cnsc-ccsn.gc.ca/eng/resources/health/health-effects-chornobyl-accident/ https://www.cnsc-ccsn.gc.ca/eng/resources/health/health-effe... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_nuclear_accidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_nuclear_accid... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_and_radiation_accidents_and_incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_and_radiation_accident... 4. Waste management incidents are difficult to quantify over 30000 year time scales. However, the industry has failed to even maintain containment for 30 years at some sites. https://web.archive.org/web/20141129021716/http://www.katu.com/news/local/Washington-to-sue-over-nuclear-sites-tank-vapors--283276831.html https://web.archive.org/web/20141129021716/http://www.katu.c... >It would be illuminating to see what you find reasonable. Cheap distributed sustainable infrastructure more robust against conflicts/regulatory-capture/arms-proliferation, and leave a light footprint for those yet to live here. Good luck, =3

"Plutonium-239 has a half-life of 24110 years" There are dozens of other decay products with various hazardous properties. Scientific hubris can't be made safe, and societies have proven irresponsible with fuel life-cycle management. =3

consensus1 3mo ago
And why am I supposed to care? Because plutonium sounds scary?
- Joel_Mckay 3mo ago
  >And why am I supposed to care? Indeed, one persons opinion is not really all that important, but one is alive because of decisions made long before they were born. >Because plutonium sounds scary? Which of the 14 isotopes are you referring too? In general, synthetic isotopes unknown in our evolutionary biology are far more toxic in trace exposures. Some people don't get a chance to learn form their mistakes. Best of luck =3
  - chickenbig 3mo ago
    > Which of the 14 isotopes are you referring too? In general, synthetic isotopes unknown in our evolutionary biology are far more toxic https://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/aug/09/rorycarroll https://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/aug/09/rorycarroll . Or does the biochemistry of Pu particularly depend on the isotope?
    - Joel_Mckay 3mo ago
      It is a complex answer, and heavily depends on decay product chemistry. =3 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK599402/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK599402/
      - chickenbig 3mo ago
        > It is a complex answer, and heavily depends on decay product chemistry. The source you provided does not agree with that assessment. It is purely radiation damage. The Pu-238 (half life 87.7 years) and Pu-239 (half-life 24,110 years) experiments. plutonium-induced health effects are considered to be the result of energy deposited by alpha particle emissions in tissues that retain plutonium for extended periods (i.e., lung, bone, liver following inhalation exposure). Similar health effects would be expected from any alpha-emitting source that would result in similar cumulative tissue-specific radiation dose and dose rate. They seem fairly certain that it is alpha particle damage, not chemistry.
        Joel_Mckay 3mo ago
        The toxicology of soluble heavy-metal bioavailable material is a well understood area of research, and can bioaccumulate in humans several times higher than background if a food chain allows biomagnification of a contaminant. The publication assumes the reader has first year biology, and will understand test subject mortality data implications. I would recommend studying the story of Polychlorinated biphenyls in whales, Mercury levels in salmon, and PFAS in the Veritasium hosts blood. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC2eSujzrUY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC2eSujzrUY "Particle Accelerator vs Egg" is a great demonstration of purely irradiated cell decomposition, and is great entertainment for all ages. =3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CiLov03IX4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CiLov03IX4
chickenbig 3mo ago
> "Plutonium-239 has a half-life of 24110 years" Great, that means it is not very radioactive, and an alpha emitter, so unless you ingest it is not particularly harmful. > societies have proven irresponsible with fuel life-cycle management Do you have evidence that the spent nuclear fuel from power stations has killed people?
- Joel_Mckay 3mo ago
  >Do you have evidence that the spent nuclear fuel from power stations has killed people? Did you mean intentional Polonium 210 exposure from decay chains, medical mistakes, or unintentional worker exposure to hot garbage. I could have a look for you, but Google should already give several reasonable results to keep one entertained. =3
  - chickenbig 3mo ago
    > intentional Polonium 210 from decay chains What do you mean "decay chains"? Po-210 decays to Pb-206 which is stable. So you mean Po-210 decay. Let's shut down the chemical industry because someone attempted to poison The Skripals. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_Skripal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_... . > medical mistakes Spent nuclear fuel is generally not used for medical isotopes. They specially prepare samples for irradiation to not have to use reprocessing, e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt-60#Production https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobalt-60#Production . > I could have a look for you It would be illuminating to see what you find reasonable.
    - Joel_Mckay 3mo ago
      1. Uranium miners have high risk of lung cancer due to radon gas and decay products. https://www.cnsc-ccsn.gc.ca/eng/resources/research/canadian-uranium-worker-study/ https://www.cnsc-ccsn.gc.ca/eng/resources/research/canadian-... 2. Workers exposed to alpha-emitting materials like plutonium/uranium show increased risk of lung cancer https://www.ovid.com/jnls/epidem/fulltext/10.1097/ede.0000000000000684~risk-of-lung-cancer-mortality-in-nuclear-workers-from https://www.ovid.com/jnls/epidem/fulltext/10.1097/ede.000000... 3. Plant operators within heavily regulated work areas are usually unaffected, and show an odd statistical wellness anomaly inconsistent with control groups. However, if one includes accidents/events with collateral impact: https://www.cnsc-ccsn.gc.ca/eng/resources/health/health-effects-chornobyl-accident/ https://www.cnsc-ccsn.gc.ca/eng/resources/health/health-effe... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_nuclear_accidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_nuclear_accid... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_and_radiation_accidents_and_incidents https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_and_radiation_accident... 4. Waste management incidents are difficult to quantify over 30000 year time scales. However, the industry has failed to even maintain containment for 30 years at some sites. https://web.archive.org/web/20141129021716/http://www.katu.com/news/local/Washington-to-sue-over-nuclear-sites-tank-vapors--283276831.html https://web.archive.org/web/20141129021716/http://www.katu.c... >It would be illuminating to see what you find reasonable. Cheap distributed sustainable infrastructure more robust against conflicts/regulatory-capture/arms-proliferation, and leave a light footprint for those yet to live here. Good luck, =3