3 ms·

Wasnt the especially hard trial and punishment of Chelsea manning, assange, etc. not a punishment by the western establishment for losing face?

throw10920 3mo ago
...no? Not that the answer to that question is even relevant to the comment I actually wrote.
- ClumsyPilot 3mo ago
  I am pointing out the whole ‘losing face’ thing exists in the west too. If you cause certain people to lose face, you will get China-like response. In fact it’s a core conservative value and you can observe it in interactions with police - if a victim embarrasses the police they will prosecute the victim instead of the perpetrator
  - throw10920 3mo ago
    > I am pointing out the whole ‘losing face’ thing exists in the west too. Yes, in the sense that a bicycle and a Formula F1 are both wheeled modes of transportation. I never said that western cultures don't have the concept of pride - just that it's categorically different in eastern cultures. This is both extremely well academically supported[1] and immediately obvious to anyone who has nontrivial exposure to most eastern cultures (including, specifically, Chinese culture). Furthermore, the punishment of Chelsea manning is clearly irrelevant for multiple different reasons: 1. Specific instances are not reflective of a general pattern 2. Manning and Assange were instances of leakers of classified information, which is a separate category from merely "losing face" 3. There's a consistent pattern of the US government prosecuting leakers of classified information[2] even when there's zero media exposure, which conclusively disproves the "its just saving face" theory [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_(sociological_concept)#References https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_(sociological_concept)#Re... [2] https://www.justice.gov/news/press-releases?search_api_fulltext=+classified&start_date=&end_date=&sort_by=search_api_relevance https://www.justice.gov/news/press-releases?search_api_fullt...

throw10920 3mo ago

...no? Not that the answer to that question is even relevant to the comment I actually wrote.

ClumsyPilot 3mo ago
I am pointing out the whole ‘losing face’ thing exists in the west too. If you cause certain people to lose face, you will get China-like response. In fact it’s a core conservative value and you can observe it in interactions with police - if a victim embarrasses the police they will prosecute the victim instead of the perpetrator
- throw10920 3mo ago
  > I am pointing out the whole ‘losing face’ thing exists in the west too. Yes, in the sense that a bicycle and a Formula F1 are both wheeled modes of transportation. I never said that western cultures don't have the concept of pride - just that it's categorically different in eastern cultures. This is both extremely well academically supported[1] and immediately obvious to anyone who has nontrivial exposure to most eastern cultures (including, specifically, Chinese culture). Furthermore, the punishment of Chelsea manning is clearly irrelevant for multiple different reasons: 1. Specific instances are not reflective of a general pattern 2. Manning and Assange were instances of leakers of classified information, which is a separate category from merely "losing face" 3. There's a consistent pattern of the US government prosecuting leakers of classified information[2] even when there's zero media exposure, which conclusively disproves the "its just saving face" theory [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_(sociological_concept)#References https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_(sociological_concept)#Re... [2] https://www.justice.gov/news/press-releases?search_api_fulltext=+classified&start_date=&end_date=&sort_by=search_api_relevance https://www.justice.gov/news/press-releases?search_api_fullt...