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It’s the council. We have to be clear which institution we are talking about within the EU, otherwise that doesn’t make any sense. The European Parliament alrea
by dgellow 4mo ago
It’s the council. We have to be clear which institution we are talking about within the EU, otherwise that doesn’t make any sense. The European Parliament already pushed back that proposal. The EU is made of a lot of different actors with their own agenda.
Here the council, with the help of the EPP party is doing that undemocratic maneuvering: They made it on purpose so that the parliament is unlikely to be able to push back a third time (all of that leaked a few days ago)
- vslira 4mo agoIf the EU as a system has an undemocratic backdoor it's descriptively correct to call it undemocratic. Not to play too hard on the HN user stereotype, but you wouldn't call a computer system that is mostly secure other than a known privilege escalation exploit secure, would you?
- bigyabai 4mo ago> you wouldn't call a computer system that is mostly secure other than a known privilege escalation exploit secure, would you? People do this all the time, regardless of whether or not they're right or wrong. "This product I own is definitely secure because the marketing says so, even if the CVEs prove me wrong" is a common sentiment online and in real life. Not to play too hard on the computing-detatched normie stereotype, but this type of surveillance is bound to succeed due to their apathy. We've seen this play out in the US before, and it's always a shoo-in for the surveillance legislation. Security, privacy and fairness doesn't even cross most people's minds anymore.
- dgellow 4mo agoEvery single democratic system relies on norms at some level. Democratic isn’t a boolean flag. When the French prime minister is using the 49-3 rule to bypass the parliament that’s undemocratic, that doesn’t make the system itself undemocratic. When a US president is using an executive order to pass a law that’s undemocratic, that doesn’t make the system itself undemocratic. Here the maneuver goes against the spirit of democracy and against the expected norms, however the EU itself is democratic
- inigyou 4mo agoIf France has a way for the prime minister to bypass democracy that's undemocratic.
- Jblx2 4mo ago>When a US president is using an executive order to pass a law An executive order isn't a law. It is an instruction for an executive branch agency or committee. https://www.federalregister.gov/presidential-documents/executive-orders https://www.federalregister.gov/presidential-documents/execu...
- gunalx 4mo agoPragmatically the difference does not really matter, om the other hand a executive order migth have more action behind it than a law.
- Jblx2 4mo agoEven with the hugely expansive U.S. government and executive branch, an executive order is much more restricted in scope than a law passed by congress.
- gf000 4mo agoWell, we don't really see all the democracy in the US, especially in this last term. When the congress doesn't even know that the president can do this or that, it's just dictatorship with some theater. In Europe, the EU's powers are much much more limited.
- nickslaughter02 4mo ago> The European Parliament already pushed back that proposal. The EU is made of a lot of different actors with their own agenda. It doesn't matter how the European parliament voted. https://www.politico.eu/article/president-vs-parliament-roberta-metsola-overrides-meps-bid-force-child-abuse-law/ https://www.politico.eu/article/president-vs-parliament-robe...
- dgellow 4mo agoIt does matter, the parliament vote is precisely what pushed the council/EPP to do their most recent push in such a disgusting, undemocratic way. The parliament still has a say, but elected are likely to already be on vacation (which is another dumb thing, but what the bad actors here are actively taking advantage of)