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I don't understand why people keep using things like this as their examples. JFK met with Khrushchev. Bush Senior and Reagan had regular contact with Gorbachev

I don't understand why people keep using things like this as their examples. JFK met with Khrushchev. Bush Senior and Reagan had regular contact with Gorbachev. It's not weird for heads of state to talk to each other. What's weird is for Trump to be paying tax dollars to cancel energy projects because he doesn't like windmills or using the FCC to investigate media outlets who criticize him. There are plenty of good examples to use that it makes no sense to resort to evidence-free innuendo.

ceejayoz 3mo ago
Because it's not quite the same; JFK et. al. weren't dumb enough to trust the Russians during those contacts. This administration, though… https://www.nbcnews.com/world/russia/russia-ukraine-war-trump-envoy-witkoff-interpreter-kremlin-rcna205878 https://www.nbcnews.com/world/russia/russia-ukraine-war-trum... > President Donald Trump’s special envoy broke with long-standing protocol by not employing his own interpreter during three high-level meetings with Russia’s Vladimir Putin, opting instead to rely on translators from the Kremlin, a U.S. official and two Western officials with knowledge of the talks told NBC News. https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/427505-trump-putin-talked-at-g20-without-us-translator-note-taker-report/ https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/427505-trump-put... > President Trump reportedly met late last year with Russian President Vladimir Putin without a translator or aide from his administration present.
- AnthonyMouse 3mo ago
  This seems like the same class of complaining about something ridiculous. If Putin wants to lie to you about something, do you expect him to speak the truth in Russian and then have his translator tell you something else? What advantage would that have compared with lying to you in Russian and having it translated accurately?
  - ZeroGravitas 3mo ago
    I think we're worried about the Trump administration lying about what they talked to the Russians about. A translator with loyalty to the USA might request what they heard.
    - AnthonyMouse 3mo ago
      Which is an even more fanciful conspiracy theory since the objection was Trump not bringing his own translator, a person he could otherwise personally select for their loyalty to him.
      - ceejayoz 3mo ago
        https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/us/politics/trump-putin-interpreter.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/us/politics/trump-putin-i... > Only Mr. Trump, who has alternately contradicted his own narrative of what was said and complained about a lack of fair coverage from a meeting only four people witnessed, could permit Ms. Gross to tell anyone about what she heard. The White House has not said whether Mr. Trump has asked her to do that.
        AnthonyMouse 3mo ago
        So now we can deduce what this is really about. Translators are civil servants with security clearances, not reporters. When the leaders of Germany and Brazil have a meeting, they may say things they don't intend for China and everyone else to know about, and it isn't the translator's job to report what was said to the media. Unless they've witnessed something on the scale of criminality that they need to act as a whistleblower (in which case they wouldn't need anyone's permission), they should never be telling anyone what happened in the room since their job is to keep those secrets. The media are fully aware of that, but they're being disingenuous and pretending that allowing a diplomatic translator to act as a media witness is a request anyone is likely to grant. Then Trump predictably responds to that by removing the translator from the room, so now they're complaining about that instead.
        3mo ago
  - ceejayoz 3mo ago
    > If Putin wants to lie to you about something, do you expect him to speak the truth in Russian and then have his translator tell you something else? Why not? The only other person in the room doesn't speak Russian.
    - AnthonyMouse 3mo ago
      You expect Putin of the KGB to presume the person he's speaking to doesn't have a recording device or the ability to remember the words he used and have them translated by someone else later? And if he did think that, wouldn't that be an advantage to the US of doing it that way, to capitalize on the chance he lets his guard down? And if he did let his guard down and Trump failed to capitalize on it, what disadvantage would the US suffer from that compared with the situation where he knows there is a US translator in the room and doesn't say it to begin with?
      - ceejayoz 3mo ago
        > You expect Putin of the KGB to presume the person he's speaking to doesn't have a recording device… Yes, I absolutely expect that sort of security at such a meeting.
        AnthonyMouse 3mo ago
        You expect the Russians to strip search the President of the United States to check for a listening device when they know that person will be in the room to hear whatever is said anyway, and the US to agree to that?
        ceejayoz 3mo ago
        I would expect the Russians to monitor for active electronic devices.
        AnthonyMouse 3mo ago
        At which point they can tell that he wears a watch but not whether the watch is a recording device, and can't detect shielded devices that can record audio onto internal storage with no RF emissions, and still can't do anything if he remembers a phrase and asks for it to be translated later.
  - sbayg 3mo ago
    Just because most of critics are brain dead morons doesn’t mean Trump is a great guy or above the same level of scrutiny shown to previous presidents.
    - AnthonyMouse 3mo ago
      That was literally the point. People should stop making farcical complaints that discredit the critics. When you cry wolf every day, eventually the wolf comes.
      - sbayg 3mo ago
        False flag farcical comments will always be a thing.
        AnthonyMouse 3mo ago
        When the farcical comments are from major institutions writing under their own name, that's not a false flag, that's just what their own flag stands for now.
        sbayg 3mo ago
        Wait, are you saying leadership at those institutions (say the Washington post) secretly want to help Trump while appearing to be aligned against him, because of say the Zionism angle or like maybe Bezos wants a president that will lower his taxes? If so, that’s not a thing many ears would be able to hear here. More parsimoniously, perhaps the journos and pundits crying wolf (to discredit Trump’s critics) are acting alone. It only takes a few, because real idiots on the internet will latch on to the farcical nonsense and amplify it further. It doesn’t mean NYT/WAPO stand for false flags, it just means they have some political actors within them using plausibly deniable attacks on Trump to help him because they are for lower taxes/zionism/etc…
- snypher 3mo ago
  >Trump ... Putin without a translator House of Cards used this same setup just to highlight how untrustworthy the president was acting.

ceejayoz 3mo ago

Because it's not quite the same; JFK et. al. weren't dumb enough to trust the Russians during those contacts. This administration, though… https://www.nbcnews.com/world/russia/russia-ukraine-war-trump-envoy-witkoff-interpreter-kremlin-rcna205878 https://www.nbcnews.com/world/russia/russia-ukraine-war-trum... > President Donald Trump’s special envoy broke with long-standing protocol by not employing his own interpreter during three high-level meetings with Russia’s Vladimir Putin, opting instead to rely on translators from the Kremlin, a U.S. official and two Western officials with knowledge of the talks told NBC News. https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/427505-trump-putin-talked-at-g20-without-us-translator-note-taker-report/ https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/427505-trump-put... > President Trump reportedly met late last year with Russian President Vladimir Putin without a translator or aide from his administration present.

AnthonyMouse 3mo ago
This seems like the same class of complaining about something ridiculous. If Putin wants to lie to you about something, do you expect him to speak the truth in Russian and then have his translator tell you something else? What advantage would that have compared with lying to you in Russian and having it translated accurately?
- ZeroGravitas 3mo ago
  I think we're worried about the Trump administration lying about what they talked to the Russians about. A translator with loyalty to the USA might request what they heard.
  - AnthonyMouse 3mo ago
    Which is an even more fanciful conspiracy theory since the objection was Trump not bringing his own translator, a person he could otherwise personally select for their loyalty to him.
    - ceejayoz 3mo ago
      https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/us/politics/trump-putin-interpreter.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/19/us/politics/trump-putin-i... > Only Mr. Trump, who has alternately contradicted his own narrative of what was said and complained about a lack of fair coverage from a meeting only four people witnessed, could permit Ms. Gross to tell anyone about what she heard. The White House has not said whether Mr. Trump has asked her to do that.
      - AnthonyMouse 3mo ago
        So now we can deduce what this is really about. Translators are civil servants with security clearances, not reporters. When the leaders of Germany and Brazil have a meeting, they may say things they don't intend for China and everyone else to know about, and it isn't the translator's job to report what was said to the media. Unless they've witnessed something on the scale of criminality that they need to act as a whistleblower (in which case they wouldn't need anyone's permission), they should never be telling anyone what happened in the room since their job is to keep those secrets. The media are fully aware of that, but they're being disingenuous and pretending that allowing a diplomatic translator to act as a media witness is a request anyone is likely to grant. Then Trump predictably responds to that by removing the translator from the room, so now they're complaining about that instead.
        3mo ago
- ceejayoz 3mo ago
  > If Putin wants to lie to you about something, do you expect him to speak the truth in Russian and then have his translator tell you something else? Why not? The only other person in the room doesn't speak Russian.
  - AnthonyMouse 3mo ago
    You expect Putin of the KGB to presume the person he's speaking to doesn't have a recording device or the ability to remember the words he used and have them translated by someone else later? And if he did think that, wouldn't that be an advantage to the US of doing it that way, to capitalize on the chance he lets his guard down? And if he did let his guard down and Trump failed to capitalize on it, what disadvantage would the US suffer from that compared with the situation where he knows there is a US translator in the room and doesn't say it to begin with?
    - ceejayoz 3mo ago
      > You expect Putin of the KGB to presume the person he's speaking to doesn't have a recording device… Yes, I absolutely expect that sort of security at such a meeting.
      - AnthonyMouse 3mo ago
        You expect the Russians to strip search the President of the United States to check for a listening device when they know that person will be in the room to hear whatever is said anyway, and the US to agree to that?
        ceejayoz 3mo ago
        I would expect the Russians to monitor for active electronic devices.
        AnthonyMouse 3mo ago
        At which point they can tell that he wears a watch but not whether the watch is a recording device, and can't detect shielded devices that can record audio onto internal storage with no RF emissions, and still can't do anything if he remembers a phrase and asks for it to be translated later.
- sbayg 3mo ago
  Just because most of critics are brain dead morons doesn’t mean Trump is a great guy or above the same level of scrutiny shown to previous presidents.
  - AnthonyMouse 3mo ago
    That was literally the point. People should stop making farcical complaints that discredit the critics. When you cry wolf every day, eventually the wolf comes.
    - sbayg 3mo ago
      False flag farcical comments will always be a thing.
      - AnthonyMouse 3mo ago
        When the farcical comments are from major institutions writing under their own name, that's not a false flag, that's just what their own flag stands for now.
        sbayg 3mo ago
        Wait, are you saying leadership at those institutions (say the Washington post) secretly want to help Trump while appearing to be aligned against him, because of say the Zionism angle or like maybe Bezos wants a president that will lower his taxes? If so, that’s not a thing many ears would be able to hear here. More parsimoniously, perhaps the journos and pundits crying wolf (to discredit Trump’s critics) are acting alone. It only takes a few, because real idiots on the internet will latch on to the farcical nonsense and amplify it further. It doesn’t mean NYT/WAPO stand for false flags, it just means they have some political actors within them using plausibly deniable attacks on Trump to help him because they are for lower taxes/zionism/etc…
snypher 3mo ago
>Trump ... Putin without a translator House of Cards used this same setup just to highlight how untrustworthy the president was acting.