20 ms·

IRecognition: I am no longer Apple's Target Market

249 points by mergy 14y ago

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nextstep 14y ago
Apple still makes the Mac Pro if you're bent on physically upgrading your computer yourself.
- wtn 14y ago
  Or, get an i7 Mac mini and put an SSD in it.
  - bitcartel 14y ago
    Does it have a standard SATA connector, or does it have the Apple-only-modified SATA connector as found in the rMBP?
    - rangibaby 14y ago
      There are two regular SATA ports on the logic board.
      - pepsi 14y ago
        Well, two regular ports but the second one is at an odd angle. An adapter[1] is required to fill the second spot if you buy your Mini with only one drive. [1]http://www.ifixit.com/Apple-Parts/Mac-Mini-Dual-Hard-Drive-Kit/IF171-005 http://www.ifixit.com/Apple-Parts/Mac-Mini-Dual-Hard-Drive-K...
  - btgeekboy 14y ago
    I went that route. The current Mini is by far the most complicated, scary computer I've worked in, and the SSD is the absolute first thing into the chassis. It's doable, but it's far more complicated than the current (non-retina) MacBook Pro or any desktop I've ever worked in.
- bitcartel 14y ago
  The current Mac Pro is long in the tooth and to all intents and purposes is dead, despite the so-called 'update' this summer. The Mac Pro forums are a pretty sad place, folk still clutching at straws, hoping something comes out next summer. "Lloyd Chambers (MacPerformance Guide) thinks it may be August 2013 before Apple releases a new Mac Pro because of remarks Steve made two or three years ago, brought to his attention by a reader of his site, that Apple would not release a Mac Pro until USB 3 was natively supported. The Ivy Bridge Xeon is supposed to support USB 3 natively." (http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/152825/future-of-mac-pro http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/152825/future-of-mac-pro)
TwiztidK 14y ago
As far as the non-upgradability of the rMBP, I don't think it's as much of a dealbreaker as some people, but Apple really could've done better. Develop a new type of low profile memory module and SSD, I'm sure some people would complain but it would be replaceable/upgradable.
- bitcartel 14y ago
  Apple butchered the standard SATA connector so you can't use third party SSDs from OCZ, Mushkin, Transcend, AData, Kingston etc. Only one vendor, OWC (MacSales), ships a compatible SSD, but of course you can't use it in non-Apple laptops which have a standard SATA connector. Picture in article here: http://www.mactrast.com/2012/11/apple-ssds-and-the-fusion-drive-ripoff/ http://www.mactrast.com/2012/11/apple-ssds-and-the-fusion-dr...
  - raverbashing 14y ago
    Manufacturers will come up with adaptors or compatible drives, shouldn't take long
    - curiousdannii 14y ago
      They shouldn't need to when the only difference is the physical shape of the connector.
- felipemnoa 14y ago
  >>I don't think it's as much of a dealbreaker as some people It is the one big thing that makes me hesitate about buying an rMBP. SSD's are prone to failure according to many articles I've read and they also have a limited life span even if it doesn't have any defects. Once the thing gives up there is no way to easily swap it out and just insert a new one. Also, sometimes I need to swap out hard drives (or SSD drives in this case). With the rMBP that is not possible. The rMBP is a nice computer but I really hope they see the error in their ways and add a replaceable standard SATA SSD.
  - 14y ago
bbotond 14y ago
The title should say iRecognition. IRecognition looks like a C# interface.
- zephjc 14y ago
  It is on the site - for better or worse, HN auto-capitalizes submission titles
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
hcarvalhoalves 14y ago
More Apple drama on the front page?
derleth 14y ago
A serious Mac-head going Ubuntu. I am also surprised, and I've been running Linux since before Ubuntu even existed, back in the before-time when Red Hat was the default distro. But I refuse to be a partisan anymore. I remember when Apple was ... well, remember Mac OS 8? Remember the time before the iMac? Those computers made me wonder how newspapers ever got published. So I'm happy the Mac people have (mostly) usable (by their standards) hardware and software now, as long as I'm not forced to use it.
- mdonahoe 14y ago
  I haven't used Ubuntu in two years. Is it true that there are now ads in it? Edit: I am referring to this http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/09/22/1319216/ubuntu-will-now-have-amazon-ads-pre-installed http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/09/22/1319216/ubuntu-will-n... I haven't seen them first hand, but I was hoping someone might give their opinion here.
  - jarek 14y ago
    I clean-installed Ubuntu 12.10 last weekend. Out of the box it has an Amazon icon in the side 'dock', I removed it and don't remember what it does. Searching with the 'dash' search box does bring up results from Amazon. The alt-f2 run box, while looking the same as the search box except for saying "run a command" instead of "search", does not perform the Amazon searches. Personally I wouldn't really consider it obtrusive, especially since I've been living with alt-f2 and dock autohiding. I had to go out of my way to find out how to bring up the ads. Aside from that, I'm pretty disappointed with the desktop environment. It's pretty but managing windows is a pain (can't easily alt-tab into a specific terminal window, for instance; it also hijacks Alt key to enable menu item search). I'm looking to replace it soon, but then again I'm probably not the user Ubuntu is primarily targeting these days.
    - danieldk 14y ago
      You can disable ads in the Privacy settings. More here: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/10/privacy-ubuntu-1210-amazon-ads-and-data-leaks https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/10/privacy-ubuntu-1210-am... To be honest, I found the ads to be quite annoying, I usually start applications by pressing the Super key and then typing the name. I don't see how showing Amazon search results for "terminal" or "chrome" are relevant. I am happy that they accept donations on the download page now. Hopefully this will reduce the need for such experiments.
cageface 14y ago
iCloud is a joke. Like eWorld. Like .Mac. Like MobileMe. You can’t do this stuff. This, I predict, is going to turn out to be Apple's achilles heel. They make great hardware and their software is good enough but they just don't get services. Google does services better than anybody and they're quickly closing the other gaps.
- amadeus 14y ago
  I don't know if you can justify statement like that from the proposed evidence. The App Store and iTunes Store are pretty damned successful services, whether you like them or not. iCloud is not a joke, it does it's job well for the 99%. I turn on my new phone, enter my apple id, and I have all my settings, apps, etc synced and ready to go.
  - ripperdoc 14y ago
    That is true, but they all represent somehow the older version of connected software, as a pure extension of the device rather than a service on it's own. iCloud works great for a device as an invisible backup, but you can't use it to share files, co-operate, publish, share data between applications, etc. And I'd say the popular web services of today are so because they integrate across services and socialize the usage. Apple are still stuck 5-10 years behind.
    - rimantas 14y ago
      Well, there is some sharing (PhotoStream), but you are right in general. And even if Google is 5 years ahead (I don't think they are), and I do use google services for sharing, the thing is I don't enjoy it. Functionality is there, but experience is lacking, alas I cannot pinpoint why. Just every time I use Google docs or Google drive I want to get out as soon as possible. For this reason I don't see Apples lack of these services as a big problem and I don't see Googles offer as a big advantage. It is possible, however, that with right implementation it may become a necessity.
    - alexatkeplar 14y ago
jtokoph 14y ago
As long as OS X still includes Terminal.app and lets me install other apps without using the App Store, I'm still hooked.
- drivebyacct2 14y ago
  I've always said this too, but looking at things like Facebook, Twitter, iOS, the last thing I want is to keep sacrificing to walled gardens where I have to play by someone elses' rules. GateKeeper, to Mac developers, is playing by Apple's rules. I don't think it's a conspiracy to say that it will tilt the favor towards those who utilize the very closed (in multiple senses of the word) App Store over regular applications.
  - pi18n 14y ago
    Can devs sign apps with a self-signed root? If that's not possible, it's a closed garden already. And even if it is we can't be certain that they won't change it to App Store only in the future.
    - drivebyacct2 14y ago
      Users can disable the check.
      - lucian1900 14y ago
        For now. All the apps out there are still signed with Apple's cert.
        danieldk 14y ago
        I regularly encounter applications that are not signed. It's easy to circumvent Gatekeeper (right click, then choose open). But I can imagine that this is quite confusing for the average end user. For them, it is already turning into a walled garden.
arn 14y ago
What's weird is that this has been a running argument for almost the entire existence of Apple. Here's the thing though -- Apple hasn't changed. They are simply closer to their goals then ever. I'm not saying it's right. But computer as an appliance? That's the dream! In the 80s we would argue on Usenet that the WIMP interface was too simplistic, and that real computer users stuck to the command line only. Now, in 2012, we argue on Blogs that the iPad is too simple, and real computer users need a mouse, keyboard, and windowed interface. I'll leave this anecdote from 1981. over 30 years ago. To show how Apple is still Apple: http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Diagnostic_Port.txt&characters=Steve%20Wozniak&sortOrder=Sort%20by%20Date&detail=high&showcomments=1 http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&s... "Apple's other co-founder, Steve Jobs, didn't agree with Jef about many things, but they both felt the same way about hardware expandability: it was a bug instead of a feature. Steve was reportedly against having slots in the Apple II back in the days of yore, and felt even stronger about slots for the Mac. He decreed that the Macintosh would remain perpetually bereft of slots, enclosed in a tightly sealed case, with only the limited expandability of the two serial ports. "
- mrich 14y ago
  I remember these arguments, they always were a bit elitist. But even today I am doing a big part of my productive work on a command line. I wouldn't want to part with the GUI and mouse, sure. But given the choice between either a GUI or a command-line only Unix I will pick the Unix system any day just because it allows automating things easily. Automation and programmability is the thing that sets computers apart from dumb devices like TVs. Many of these things can be done with the help of a GUI nowadays. But most of them cannot be done efficiently without a command line.
- ekianjo 14y ago
  I think it is not so much "computer as an appliance" which is the issue but the fact that you can do less and less with your computing devices, or that they become, in the end, more convoluted to use because of the design choices made. Like, turning a desktop computer operating OS to a tablet-like OS is just plain stupid and is a loss of efficiency. Otherwise I agree with you, Apple has not changed a bit. Some people take longer to realize it, apparently.
bpatrianakos 14y ago
This sounds more like bandwagon-backlash than the real thing. There's no reasons here. Just a bunch of recycled generic complaints that are pretty trendy to toss around about Apple these days. The next cool thing is hating Apple so all the Apple users will probably write more articles like this and we'll have to read it every day on the front page. Brace yourselves.
- supercoder 14y ago
  Yeah I agree, such a troll bait article. He states a bunch of things he doesnt like, but gives no reasons why they're bad. At the end he still says he's running a Mac Book and it's the happiest he's ever been (albeit with Ubuntu but still). Makes no sense.
- jmpeax 14y ago
  It's remarkably easy to spot these types of article early. They always begin with short sentences, and almost always include the sentence "It has been a good run."
- vitalique 14y ago
  I don't get why the parent is being downvoted and I dislike silent knee-jerk-downvoting at HN very much. I'm absolutely orthogonal to Apple's services and devices - just never used them, and article does not seem to shed almost any lights on whether I should or shouldn't try to. Actually, it confuses me even more: author dislikes Apple's services (or does he? he's been so enthusiastic in the past!), makes some unclear points about Apple being a 'consumer electronics company now', and then suddenly wraps up with him being perfectly happy with his MacBook Pro today. Now throw in a pathetic iTitle and prepare your WordPress to be hit by the frontpages of the Internet. Am I missing something? What the article does show clearly though is that we're in urgent need of some nagging/whining detector, if not for the whole Internet then at least for HN's frontpage.
redial 14y ago
To all of those complaining about the new Apple devices, this is what you should do. You should vote with your wallet. I don't think that you are going to change Apple's mind, but this is the only way they'll listen. Personally, I think they are to far gone by now. The money pouring in has simply been to much to ignore. It's not the computer for the rest of us any more...It's the computer for the rest of them... (I am one of them, I just understand your argument and your frustration)
- jarek 14y ago
  > To all of those complaining about the new Apple devices, this is what you should do. You should vote with your wallet. But then how will people know I have Taste?
  - psionski 14y ago
    The thing that's been keeping me from buying an Apple device is being associated with their users. This "better than you" attitude is something I just can't stand, it's repulsive. Instead of being ashamed that they wasted $3000 on a computer they could have had for $500 (and could have donated the other $2500), they feel smug about it? WTF!
    - jusben1369 14y ago
      I'm not sure HN does humour well. I suspect that was a little tongue in cheek.
      - psionski 14y ago
        Not at all, I really dislike people that think that just because they bought something expensive, they have rights to brag about how cool they are and how lost everyone else is. The most recent example: a friend of mine posts "Oh, no! My laptop died!", to which a Mac user comments with "That's why I bought a MacBook Pro!". When I mentioned that they fail too, he began talking about the grapes being sour and how poor I am?! I would never want to be associated with people thinking this way, ever. I bet they don't even know what a savings account is.
blhack 14y ago
Apple is making the exact same mistake the RIM made. They've gone from targeting hardcore fans, to targeting teenagers. The problem is that teenagers are quick to jump ship to the coolest new thing. Apple has been making "coolest new thing" for a while, but they're getting really popular now, which seems to be inversely proportional to "cool". For RIM, they moved away from targeting hardcore, email-addicted business people, and it made them vulnerable enough to get killed. Apple is doing the same thing.
- supercoder 14y ago
  RIM never moved their target. In fact I still think they try and promote the Blackberry as the device for 'email-addicted business people'. And I think it's because of the fact they thought their 'hard-core fans' would stick with them put them where they are today , not the other way around.
- wvenable 14y ago
  The device that made Apple what it is now is the iPod.
- bonch 14y ago
  > Apple is making the exact same mistake the RIM made. They've gone from targeting hardcore fans, to targeting teenagers. Not sure what you're talking about. Apple, like any major technology company, has always targeted both hardcore fans and teenagers. Nothing's changed there. On a related note, another constant in Apple's history has been its naysayers. Apple's critics are infamous for proclaiming in every year of the company's existence that it is doomed. People were saying exactly what you're saying 10 years ago when the iPod came out.
- shimfish 14y ago
  This mistake started when Steve Jobs returned to Apple. And now they have $80 billion dollars in the bank.
  - xoail 14y ago
    $120B.
Derbasti 14y ago
I feel exactly the same way. And just like the author. I don't quite fully understand why. By the way, I don't think the author is really criticizing Apple much. He just recognizes that Apple's vision is no longer in line with his own.
- supercoder 14y ago
  I wonder what was the vision he thought he shared with Apple ? If you reverse all his points then it seems like in his mind Apple provided ultra customisable hardware and software with great options for the enterprise. I don't remember that Apple.
  - Derbasti 14y ago
    There is that vision of the Unix with a nice UI.
drivebyacct2 14y ago
In my opinion, it's simple. 5 years ago, Apple was seemingly "light years" ahead of everyone. Kowtowing wasn't really even a thought because so much more was being provided than elsewhere that there was no real compromise to choose Apple. That's not true and is increasingly more than just untrue...
epaga 14y ago
The site isn't working for me, here it is in Google Cache: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://mergy.org/2012/12/irecognition-i-am-no-longer-apples-target-market/&hl=en&tbo=d&strip=1 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://...
ripperdoc 14y ago
I can sympathize and I feel less content with Apple than I used to. I love their hardware - anyway I always find myself buying a new device rather than upgrading. Apple does great stuff but as other's I'm really worried that they won't fix their awkardness with the web. But another note - how come no one can throw in a bit of analysis to back up these kind of argument? Otherwise it just seems like typical disillusionment (as products and companies inevitably evolve). As such it doesn't mean anything, it just means one person with a blog decided to use Ubuntu. There is a guy with a blog for every product that has ever changed. Throw in some analysis, and it may make a bigger difference.
spacepig 14y ago
Will he have the same annoying and egocentric article next time another nobody decide that he no longer like a product or start being bored by drinking coffee?
shimfish 14y ago
It's simply stunning to me to see how long it's taken the computer geeks to work this out. Apple stopped making toys for you over a decade ago and you are only just realising it now? I guess this is another consequence of the filter bubble. As all we read on the internet is the opinion of other geeks, we forget that geeks are hopelessly outnumbered by normals and they are the ones Apple is targeting and reaping the rewards. This was always Steve Jobs vision and it's not like it was a secret. However, the most ludicrous part of this post is the suggestion that Apple would be best served as a company making servers again and trying its best to grab back that lucrative desktop linux market. This, in a nutshell, is why Apple was revolutionary. The geeks just simply didn't see normal people and made hardware and software that suited their own needs and behold, it sucked mightily. Apple made the step of putting the normal person first and, shockingly, normal people decided to pay good money for their products. All of this should be obvious to anyone who reads HN and witnessed Apples meteoric rise. It's a bit disconcerting to discover that apparently it isn't.
- tolmasky 14y ago
  The article isn't saying Apple should go back to making servers, he is just saying they are no longer serving him in particular anymore, which is fair. I will however contend that MY main issue with Apple now a-days is that its actually becoming worse on the "normal person front" (at least when it comes to OS X). Messages for example is a complete disaster. I regularly have to help family members with their Macs (many of which originally moved to the Mac on my insistence ages ago), and I can tell you that they are still quite confused (increasingly so) about how to use these machines. Here is an article that touches on this: http://blog.davidchartier.com/post/36634783567/im-getting-sick-of-making-excuses http://blog.davidchartier.com/post/36634783567/im-getting-si... However, I am still pretty happy with iOS/iDevices. I have not been as happy with an Apple product as with the iPad mini in a LONG time. I do agree with others though that if they don't get their act together with "services" (Maps, Sync, basically anything that isn't judged on a purely client side "niceness" scale), it may be an issue for them. However my opinion is that they just shouldn't be bothering with this at all, but that's a whole other story.
- danieldk 14y ago
  There is also a contingent of UNIX users who use Mac OS X pragmatically. I have never had the illusion that Apple wasn't a consumer device company at heart. But Macs have been great UNIX workstations for the last decade or so. Once they make more serious attempts to turn their laptop line into 'iOS computers', I'll switch back to Linux or BSD. But for now, it is good hardware with a good UNIX operating system.
macrael 14y ago
Using the svtle theme while not being part of svtle comes off as really slimy. You are ripping off someone else's work and there are no two ways about it.
- TallboyOne 14y ago
  https://github.com/gravityonmars/wp-svbtle https://github.com/gravityonmars/wp-svbtle
  - macrael 14y ago
    Exactly? No one should use that theme.
    - aabc 14y ago
      I Agree.
- georgeorwell 14y ago
  Is software or hardware cloning ever OK?
caublestone 14y ago
Why does this have to be such a negative article? I would prefer to see a praising of how great the latest Ubuntu is in detail. Intro with "I've been a power mac user for x years..." and then go on to sing the praises.
- Maci 14y ago
  Doesn't have the intro you posit and maybe a slight off topic in places. But perhaps informative. http://eggfreckles.net/notes/my-week-with-linux/ http://eggfreckles.net/notes/my-week-with-linux/
nostromo 14y ago
The ironic ending of the blog post is interesting. He's running Ubuntu... on a MacBook Pro. Even if you hate the software and all things iOS, it's hard to find a better designed laptop.
- xiaomai 14y ago
  > For the first time in as long as I can remember, I know my next laptop and phone will not have a Apple logo on it.
- wging 14y ago
  A well-designed laptop which is heading toward zero upgradeablility.
  - rimantas 14y ago
    Zero upgradeability (in the sense of zero need to upgrade: does not break, is powerful enough) is a good sign of well designed.
    - kawsper 14y ago
      So the SSD is going to work forever? Because that is what I am afraid of.
      - greedo 14y ago
        Upgradeability != repairability.
  - czhiddy 14y ago
    Aside from PCMCIA/ExpressCard upgrades, which are useless nowadays thanks to USB2/3, the only upgrades available to laptops are memory + disk. RAM is cheap enough where companies can toss in 8gb (soon, 16gb) without a second thought, which is more than enough for probably 99% of the customer base for as long as the laptop is in service. That leaves the disk drive as the one non-upgradable part. I imagine part of the reason for this is the (relative) bulkiness of the 2.5" SSD form factor. Are there any other standardized sizes that could work in a rMBP form factor? 1.8" maybe? The 11" MBA may have problems fitting it, but a swappable 1.8" SSD on the larger models would be quite nice.
logn 14y ago
I think the author is maybe reading too many Apple fanboy blogs. Apple still makes OS X and all the developer tools. Developing for iOS is far easier than Android. Sure the Mac is becoming more of an appliance but with stagnant hardware speeds is it that big of a deal? Also, Apple has been hostile to DIY repairs and add-ons since forever. I remember being 12 years old arguing on the 1-800-APPL-SOS help line that 3rd party RAM was not causing my problem and no I wouldn't uninstall it to get help. Apple relies on its developers to power the App Store. They (hopefully) won't forget that. I'm not worried. You don't hear anyone ever talking about how awesome Apple Logic is for making music or how easy Final Cut Pro is for video. They still make them and they're great quality. Just because the masses of Apple reporters aren't focused on your baby doesn't mean Apple doesn't care about it. Apple is just selling their profit vision to investors.
- randomdata 14y ago
  Apple relies on its developers to power the App Store. They (hopefully) won't forget that. Well, I'm sure they won't forget the 25 [1]. They may forget about everyone else though. [1] http://techcrunch.com/2012/12/04/analyst-just-25-developers-grabbed-50-of-app-revenues-on-u-s-app-store-google-play-last-month-earning-60m-between-them/ http://techcrunch.com/2012/12/04/analyst-just-25-developers-...
pirateking 14y ago
Computer as appliance means not a general-purpose computer. If you cannot use it to execute your own code and access the hardware, then it is not general-purpose. That means the new wave of locked down computers are instead multi-purpose computers - those purposes being defined by what it cannot do. Apple makes damn good multi-purpose machines for the most common purposes of most people - which they have consistently explained is their company's goal forever. Just look at their general-purpose tools (XServe, Mac Pro, Developer Tools) being neglected, and single-purpose machines being cannibalized (iPod) or taken lightly (Apple TV). All of Apple's lineup is of respectable quality, but it is obvious where the focus is converging. Now there is an opening for others to explore new general-purpose and single-purpose machines.
sjmulder 14y ago
I don’t agree with the point on convergence. It seems clear to me that Apple is not turning OS X into iOS. It’s still very much a WIMP interface best suited for keyboard and mouse. Windows 8 is a good example of PC/tablet convergence, and however much you like or dislike that approach, it’s the opposite of what Apple is doing. On some other points I do agree, like the gluing down and lack of expandability/repairability.
aabc 14y ago
I don't get this. Why are you using svbtle theme if you don't belong to the svbtle community ? I know there is some wordpress theme out there that clones svbtle but it's not an excuse. Using svbtle theme does not make you smarter.
- pjzedalis 14y ago
  Perhaps he found the clone and liked it. It is possible he had no idea what svbtle is. It's also possible he does not care. Knowing he is not in svbtle does not make you smarter.
BenoitEssiambre 14y ago
I wish to concur the statement that Ubuntu is now the fastest most user friendly modern OS out there. Try it you might be surprised.
- SquareWheel 14y ago
  Has much changed in two years? Every once in a while I hear Linux is finally user friendly, and I go try it and my multiple monitors don't work and my graphics card drivers require manual installation and I get constantly riddled with permissions prompts which I'm sure is necessary but still annoys me as an end user.
  - hippee-lee 14y ago
    Not much has changed. I stopped upgrading my work desktop because the drivers for my wired Ethernet needs to be recompiled every Ubuntu upgrade. Very annoying when I am in the middle of a sprint and I have to stop to figure out why basic things are no longer working.
  - djisjke 14y ago
    It has. But there is still the ol' quirks. I had problems with sounds on ubuntu on my ThinkPad. I had to install XFCE for it to play nice with 2 monitors (since the gpu in the old laptop is kind of sucky). But Macosx has even worse compability, so if you buy computer parts that are knows to play nice with linux you'll have a swell time :). Also, when you start playing with tiling window managers you'll be glad you don't have a mac.
glogla 14y ago
Sadly, I'm still in Apple's target market, because Lenovo is unable to put reasonable displays in their 14" laptops.
netcan 14y ago
This emotion in this blog is in a lot of ways revealing about Apple. The writer sounds hurt. I don't think Microsoft would have attracted this kind of response. For me, I tend to look at changes in terms of their effect on the ecosystem as whole. From that perspective, I'm very glad that Apple exist, as they are. I like that Apple is fanatically adherent to its ideologies. Taking things to extremes is also a good way of discovering principles and the uncovering the costs of compromises. In any case, I think An ipad is extremely simple. The pool of people who can become completely comfortable with it in a few days is larger then for any other computer. It's metaphors are tidiest. An iOS app is a more clearly defined concept, for example, then it is on Android. A fanatic trying to prove that a simple life on $500 per person per month is the ideal way of living probably isn't right, but she is useful to have in your life. She will probably make all sorts of discoveries that will enhance your life, even if you don't buy her entire ideology. In your life you will be making all sorts of compromises. These have tradeoffs. Inevitably you will be wrong about the pros & cons of some choices. Maybe glued together hardware is not worth the tradeoff. Maybe it is. Maybe it is sometimes. Now we get to find out. At the end of 2012, things look better than they did 1 year ago from this perspective. We have several viable operating systems from three very different companies. It seems likely & possible that new entrants will appear if those three don't cover all needs.
kayoone 14y ago
The thing is, every company in the comsumer PC space would go the exact same route as Apple if they could. Look at Dell, HP etc trying to mimic Apples every move in the consumer computing space. Microsoft doing an AppStore model in Windows 8 etc. If its not Apple, somebody else would gladly take its place and it might be the fate of any of todays most popular consumer computing company. Now of course you can still use Linux and build your own PC, but you will, and have always been, a minority in the market.
- greedo 14y ago
  I'm old. I remember back in the 70's, a neighbor of my grandparents who was building his own color TV. This was probably around 1973, and I think it might have been a HeathKit. I thought that was the coolest thing! Unsurprisingly, there weren't a lot of people building their own TVs. I've paid my dues, physically building servers, installing various BSDs from stacks of CDs, fighting with compilers on Solaris x86, queuing my jobs on my university's PDP11. Now I'm content to just use OSX, or RHEL, or even AIX if required. But I continually try to avoid transferring my own preferences into a jeremiad against whatever's popular. Apple will continue to do well as long as it serves its customers. It's gone from being Apple Computers Inc. to Apple. That's a hint of where they see their focus being.
gramsey 14y ago
> You are about unit sales now. You need more and more consumers to want to get the latest Apple device. I get it. I don’t agree with it, but that is where you are now. This author seems personally hurt by the fact that Apple rapidly releasing new devices, as if he feels that he is being obligated to purchase the latest products as soon as they come out and doesn't want to. Is there a small, vocal minority of the Apple fanbase that has to have the latest thing? Certainly. But the average user does not, and has no need to upgrade their Macbook Air just because a new one comes out a year later. In fact, I've had mine for a year and a half, and I have no need or desire to upgrade anytime soon. > I didn’t jump at the iPhone 5. I wasn’t in-line on day one like I was with the iPhone 3 and iPhone 4. I am unsure why I just didn’t care anymore. Great, you don't need to care! Before the iPhone was released, would you have stood in line for a phone at all? I know people who still use the iPhone 3G and have no issues, because they don't need a retina display or the ability to run intense games, they just want a phone that works. Either this author: (1) Wants to have bleeding-technology all the time but is offended by the fact that he would have to pay for it often, or (2) Is so brainwashed by the blogomania surrounding Apple that he is unsatisfied with the fact that the company keeps fairly rapid release cycles, therefore causing his products to technically be "older versions".
nicholassmith 14y ago
I've been a Mac user for nearly a decade, first machine I bought was a G4 12" iBook. My Uni final year project was a Cocoa app when saying "Hey I'm making a Mac App!" got you strange looks. I've also developed on Linux for work for about 5/6 years. Sometimes, even cross-platform OS X/Linux development. Has the situation changed and 'nerds' are no longer Apple's target market? Kind of. A bit. If you cared about upgradability and taking that machine and using it for 6 years and it being awesome then sure, Apple's changed. It's not for you. If like me you came to Apple as you had no interest in upgrading a machine, ever, at all, then they've not changed. I still have: a built in, relatively decent Terminal. I have command line build tools (and yes we can argue about the quality, and whether Apple should be forking their own versions, but that's a topic for another day). Apple ships their own IDE & SDK for the system, to anyone, and they've done that for as long as I've been using them as well. Apple reducing upgradability isn't them thumbing their noses at us. When they release a version of the OS without a Terminal we can all go "Well, Apple has moved on from us developers", or if they pull XCode from the App Store. Until then, it's Apple improving their products inline with what a large portion of people want.
- bambax 14y ago
  > If like me you came to Apple as you had no interest in upgrading a machine, ever, at all, then they've not changed. Not true; at some point in time versions of OS X kind of stop working (no new version of Firefox or Chrome for you if you're running anything prior to 10.5 for example).
  - nicholassmith 14y ago
    Sorry, I should have been more clear about hardware upgrading versus software upgrading. But you do raise an interesting point, as Apple progresses their software so do companies, so if Firefox and Chrome no longer work then is that the responsibility of Apple? I'd say no, and I'd say OS X 10.5 is still a mighty good OS with excellent features throughout, but I don't blame FF and Chrome for moving forward.
  - cynwoody 14y ago
    Prior to 10.6, actually. I just upgraded from 10.5 to 10.6.8 for that very reason.
JuDue 14y ago
If you want an upgradable computer, then all-in-one designs were never going to be the economical path. Predicting this guy just needs to wait to see the next Mac Pro. I'm still delighted with Apple. Both iOS and OSX are prime for some rethinking (beyond a few licks of paint). But I do think Apple is in a far better position to do this well and in their own time now the Windows 8 threat has imploded on itself (somewhat ... well, at least it's not found huge momentum yet).
revscat 14y ago
You know, I was so happy when I discovered HN. It is normally such a refreshing respite from all the other tech blogs and aggregators, and from /r/tech in particular. But over the past few weeks I keep seeing vapid, information-less articles like this make it to the front page, and it's pretty disappointing to see happen. The knee-jerk anti-Apple sentiments seem to have infected even this (mostly) austere and considerate site. I hope this is a temporary thing.
- hack_edu 14y ago
  It's not a temporary thing, and in fact had been going on for a few years now. We are currently in the phase of blatant link bait self posted blogs gaming the front page. Prior to this tend for the past year or so, there was the "rah-rah look at this cool startup and secretly plug my own" phase. The current one will likely continue until a big bust or something else comes along. Likely the latter.
phy6 14y ago
Man, his phrasing is awkward and annoying.
jsz0 14y ago
Couldn't disagree more. I'm very happy with Apple's current software/hardware products. Won't bother to go into detail since the author doesn't go into detail much with his gripes either. Not worth the keystrokes. (semi related I'm downright giddy about the new iTunes. I think it's a great sign of where Apple's desktop software is heading)
rymith 14y ago
I am so tired of this bullshit. The iMac was never upgradeable, and it isn't designed to be. You needed two giant suction cups to get into it, and less than 0.5% of iMac owners ever did this. To buy an all in one for it's upgradability is simply retarded. You could upgrade the RAM or the hard drive, and on the new 27", you can upgrade the RAM with the push of a button. So lets please cut the straw man arguments. You want to be cool for hating on Apple, and decided that ignominious post would do it. The problem, you just look like a fool. Apple has never made an easily upgradeable all in one, And yet, if you want to customize a Mac, you still have that option with the MacPro. Lets call out the real reason; you want to feel cool. You felt Apple made you cool when they had a tiny market share, but now has too many users for you to feel exclusive.
rayiner 14y ago
These articles are such a load of crap, for a simple reason: Mac is still the development environment for iPad, and Apple is all about Apps, Apps, Apps. OS X is better and faster than it has ever been. It's not any more locked down than it has ever been. It has more features than it ever has. Apple's laptops are less upgradable, but since when have laptops been particularly upgradable? You can do "real work" on an iPad. It's a phenomenal machine for consuming and producing text. As a lawyer I spend my life reading or writing text. The retina screen is an absolute revelation for that. I can't run CAD programs on it, but then again I never did on my Mac either.
PagingCraig 14y ago
Boring rant piece.
ebbv 14y ago
Another day another one of these absurd, self-righteous blog posts. What's hilarious to me is that only Apple draws this kind of posturing and absurdity. You don't see blog posts like this about Dell or Sony. But you DID see posts like this about Microsoft in the '90s. It's really more about standing up and decrying whatever company is on top than anything else. People feel like by slagging on the top tech company they are taking a stance as an independent, righteous, thoughtful person. When in reality they are taking the most obvious, boring position available.
- forthewyn 14y ago
  A-men. The self righteous tone gets SO old after a while. What's also strange to me is that these posts get the up votes they do. is this REALLY news to anyone?
forthewyn 14y ago
Quite honestly, this kind of post just makes me want to hurl. The OP was NEVER the target market for Apple, it just so happened that Apple's design choices coincided with his or her needs. If you ever thought Apple's primary target market was uber-geeks, you were seriously deluding yourself. The reason so many of us were drawn to OSX was that it runs Mach BSD under the hood - so yay, we all get a nice convenient UNIX(TM) workstation that also runs commercial software and games. I've got to admit I'm getting awfully sick of this kind of meaningless hand wringing. You want commodity hardware and the ability to tinker with everything* then by all means go buy a Linux box, just don't get all high and mighty and act as if Apple has betrayed you, because from their perspective exactly nothing has changed.
- gavinlynch 14y ago
  I'm amazed it took so long for someone to make this point. That was going to be my only response: "Yes, you're right. You're not the target market. End of Story."
calinet6 14y ago
What a tired, sensationalist argument. Use what you like, embrace change, stop complaining.
tharris0101 14y ago
Full Disclosure: I'm an Apple user that has been criticizing them for the last few years for a variety of things but... This article (at least the first half) comes down to: Apple makes products that don't suit me (okay, so don't buy an iPad). Apple has glued their new screens to the metal (Is this really that big of a deal?). Apple uses proprietary screws (This has been done for years) There are lots of things in the curated Mac App Store that are of no use to him (So don't use the App Store or don't buy apps that are useless to you) In the comments, the OP admits that he will continue to use Apple hardware because it is the best but will run Linux (Apple makes their money off hardware sales, so its of no loss to them). There are many reasons to criticize Apple lately, I just don't see these reasons as having merit.

249 points by mergy 14y ago

]

nextstep 14y ago

Apple still makes the Mac Pro if you're bent on physically upgrading your computer yourself.

wtn 14y ago
Or, get an i7 Mac mini and put an SSD in it.
- bitcartel 14y ago
  Does it have a standard SATA connector, or does it have the Apple-only-modified SATA connector as found in the rMBP?
  - rangibaby 14y ago
    There are two regular SATA ports on the logic board.
    - pepsi 14y ago
      Well, two regular ports but the second one is at an odd angle. An adapter[1] is required to fill the second spot if you buy your Mini with only one drive. [1]http://www.ifixit.com/Apple-Parts/Mac-Mini-Dual-Hard-Drive-Kit/IF171-005 http://www.ifixit.com/Apple-Parts/Mac-Mini-Dual-Hard-Drive-K...
- btgeekboy 14y ago
  I went that route. The current Mini is by far the most complicated, scary computer I've worked in, and the SSD is the absolute first thing into the chassis. It's doable, but it's far more complicated than the current (non-retina) MacBook Pro or any desktop I've ever worked in.
bitcartel 14y ago
The current Mac Pro is long in the tooth and to all intents and purposes is dead, despite the so-called 'update' this summer. The Mac Pro forums are a pretty sad place, folk still clutching at straws, hoping something comes out next summer. "Lloyd Chambers (MacPerformance Guide) thinks it may be August 2013 before Apple releases a new Mac Pro because of remarks Steve made two or three years ago, brought to his attention by a reader of his site, that Apple would not release a Mac Pro until USB 3 was natively supported. The Ivy Bridge Xeon is supposed to support USB 3 natively." (http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/152825/future-of-mac-pro http://forums.appleinsider.com/t/152825/future-of-mac-pro)

TwiztidK 14y ago

As far as the non-upgradability of the rMBP, I don't think it's as much of a dealbreaker as some people, but Apple really could've done better. Develop a new type of low profile memory module and SSD, I'm sure some people would complain but it would be replaceable/upgradable.

bitcartel 14y ago
Apple butchered the standard SATA connector so you can't use third party SSDs from OCZ, Mushkin, Transcend, AData, Kingston etc. Only one vendor, OWC (MacSales), ships a compatible SSD, but of course you can't use it in non-Apple laptops which have a standard SATA connector. Picture in article here: http://www.mactrast.com/2012/11/apple-ssds-and-the-fusion-drive-ripoff/ http://www.mactrast.com/2012/11/apple-ssds-and-the-fusion-dr...
- raverbashing 14y ago
  Manufacturers will come up with adaptors or compatible drives, shouldn't take long
  - curiousdannii 14y ago
    They shouldn't need to when the only difference is the physical shape of the connector.
felipemnoa 14y ago
>>I don't think it's as much of a dealbreaker as some people It is the one big thing that makes me hesitate about buying an rMBP. SSD's are prone to failure according to many articles I've read and they also have a limited life span even if it doesn't have any defects. Once the thing gives up there is no way to easily swap it out and just insert a new one. Also, sometimes I need to swap out hard drives (or SSD drives in this case). With the rMBP that is not possible. The rMBP is a nice computer but I really hope they see the error in their ways and add a replaceable standard SATA SSD.
- 14y ago

bbotond 14y ago

The title should say iRecognition. IRecognition looks like a C# interface.

zephjc 14y ago
It is on the site - for better or worse, HN auto-capitalizes submission titles
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]

hcarvalhoalves 14y ago

More Apple drama on the front page?

derleth 14y ago

A serious Mac-head going Ubuntu. I am also surprised, and I've been running Linux since before Ubuntu even existed, back in the before-time when Red Hat was the default distro. But I refuse to be a partisan anymore. I remember when Apple was ... well, remember Mac OS 8? Remember the time before the iMac? Those computers made me wonder how newspapers ever got published. So I'm happy the Mac people have (mostly) usable (by their standards) hardware and software now, as long as I'm not forced to use it.

mdonahoe 14y ago
I haven't used Ubuntu in two years. Is it true that there are now ads in it? Edit: I am referring to this http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/09/22/1319216/ubuntu-will-now-have-amazon-ads-pre-installed http://yro.slashdot.org/story/12/09/22/1319216/ubuntu-will-n... I haven't seen them first hand, but I was hoping someone might give their opinion here.
- jarek 14y ago
  I clean-installed Ubuntu 12.10 last weekend. Out of the box it has an Amazon icon in the side 'dock', I removed it and don't remember what it does. Searching with the 'dash' search box does bring up results from Amazon. The alt-f2 run box, while looking the same as the search box except for saying "run a command" instead of "search", does not perform the Amazon searches. Personally I wouldn't really consider it obtrusive, especially since I've been living with alt-f2 and dock autohiding. I had to go out of my way to find out how to bring up the ads. Aside from that, I'm pretty disappointed with the desktop environment. It's pretty but managing windows is a pain (can't easily alt-tab into a specific terminal window, for instance; it also hijacks Alt key to enable menu item search). I'm looking to replace it soon, but then again I'm probably not the user Ubuntu is primarily targeting these days.
  - danieldk 14y ago
    You can disable ads in the Privacy settings. More here: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/10/privacy-ubuntu-1210-amazon-ads-and-data-leaks https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2012/10/privacy-ubuntu-1210-am... To be honest, I found the ads to be quite annoying, I usually start applications by pressing the Super key and then typing the name. I don't see how showing Amazon search results for "terminal" or "chrome" are relevant. I am happy that they accept donations on the download page now. Hopefully this will reduce the need for such experiments.

cageface 14y ago

iCloud is a joke. Like eWorld. Like .Mac. Like MobileMe. You can’t do this stuff. This, I predict, is going to turn out to be Apple's achilles heel. They make great hardware and their software is good enough but they just don't get services. Google does services better than anybody and they're quickly closing the other gaps.

amadeus 14y ago
I don't know if you can justify statement like that from the proposed evidence. The App Store and iTunes Store are pretty damned successful services, whether you like them or not. iCloud is not a joke, it does it's job well for the 99%. I turn on my new phone, enter my apple id, and I have all my settings, apps, etc synced and ready to go.
- ripperdoc 14y ago
  That is true, but they all represent somehow the older version of connected software, as a pure extension of the device rather than a service on it's own. iCloud works great for a device as an invisible backup, but you can't use it to share files, co-operate, publish, share data between applications, etc. And I'd say the popular web services of today are so because they integrate across services and socialize the usage. Apple are still stuck 5-10 years behind.
  - rimantas 14y ago
    Well, there is some sharing (PhotoStream), but you are right in general. And even if Google is 5 years ahead (I don't think they are), and I do use google services for sharing, the thing is I don't enjoy it. Functionality is there, but experience is lacking, alas I cannot pinpoint why. Just every time I use Google docs or Google drive I want to get out as soon as possible. For this reason I don't see Apples lack of these services as a big problem and I don't see Googles offer as a big advantage. It is possible, however, that with right implementation it may become a necessity.
  - alexatkeplar 14y ago

jtokoph 14y ago

As long as OS X still includes Terminal.app and lets me install other apps without using the App Store, I'm still hooked.

drivebyacct2 14y ago
I've always said this too, but looking at things like Facebook, Twitter, iOS, the last thing I want is to keep sacrificing to walled gardens where I have to play by someone elses' rules. GateKeeper, to Mac developers, is playing by Apple's rules. I don't think it's a conspiracy to say that it will tilt the favor towards those who utilize the very closed (in multiple senses of the word) App Store over regular applications.
- pi18n 14y ago
  Can devs sign apps with a self-signed root? If that's not possible, it's a closed garden already. And even if it is we can't be certain that they won't change it to App Store only in the future.
  - drivebyacct2 14y ago
    Users can disable the check.
    - lucian1900 14y ago
      For now. All the apps out there are still signed with Apple's cert.
      - danieldk 14y ago
        I regularly encounter applications that are not signed. It's easy to circumvent Gatekeeper (right click, then choose open). But I can imagine that this is quite confusing for the average end user. For them, it is already turning into a walled garden.

arn 14y ago

What's weird is that this has been a running argument for almost the entire existence of Apple. Here's the thing though -- Apple hasn't changed. They are simply closer to their goals then ever. I'm not saying it's right. But computer as an appliance? That's the dream! In the 80s we would argue on Usenet that the WIMP interface was too simplistic, and that real computer users stuck to the command line only. Now, in 2012, we argue on Blogs that the iPad is too simple, and real computer users need a mouse, keyboard, and windowed interface. I'll leave this anecdote from 1981. over 30 years ago. To show how Apple is still Apple: http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=Diagnostic_Port.txt&characters=Steve%20Wozniak&sortOrder=Sort%20by%20Date&detail=high&showcomments=1 http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&s... "Apple's other co-founder, Steve Jobs, didn't agree with Jef about many things, but they both felt the same way about hardware expandability: it was a bug instead of a feature. Steve was reportedly against having slots in the Apple II back in the days of yore, and felt even stronger about slots for the Mac. He decreed that the Macintosh would remain perpetually bereft of slots, enclosed in a tightly sealed case, with only the limited expandability of the two serial ports. "

mrich 14y ago
I remember these arguments, they always were a bit elitist. But even today I am doing a big part of my productive work on a command line. I wouldn't want to part with the GUI and mouse, sure. But given the choice between either a GUI or a command-line only Unix I will pick the Unix system any day just because it allows automating things easily. Automation and programmability is the thing that sets computers apart from dumb devices like TVs. Many of these things can be done with the help of a GUI nowadays. But most of them cannot be done efficiently without a command line.
ekianjo 14y ago
I think it is not so much "computer as an appliance" which is the issue but the fact that you can do less and less with your computing devices, or that they become, in the end, more convoluted to use because of the design choices made. Like, turning a desktop computer operating OS to a tablet-like OS is just plain stupid and is a loss of efficiency. Otherwise I agree with you, Apple has not changed a bit. Some people take longer to realize it, apparently.

bpatrianakos 14y ago

This sounds more like bandwagon-backlash than the real thing. There's no reasons here. Just a bunch of recycled generic complaints that are pretty trendy to toss around about Apple these days. The next cool thing is hating Apple so all the Apple users will probably write more articles like this and we'll have to read it every day on the front page. Brace yourselves.

supercoder 14y ago
Yeah I agree, such a troll bait article. He states a bunch of things he doesnt like, but gives no reasons why they're bad. At the end he still says he's running a Mac Book and it's the happiest he's ever been (albeit with Ubuntu but still). Makes no sense.
jmpeax 14y ago
It's remarkably easy to spot these types of article early. They always begin with short sentences, and almost always include the sentence "It has been a good run."
vitalique 14y ago
I don't get why the parent is being downvoted and I dislike silent knee-jerk-downvoting at HN very much. I'm absolutely orthogonal to Apple's services and devices - just never used them, and article does not seem to shed almost any lights on whether I should or shouldn't try to. Actually, it confuses me even more: author dislikes Apple's services (or does he? he's been so enthusiastic in the past!), makes some unclear points about Apple being a 'consumer electronics company now', and then suddenly wraps up with him being perfectly happy with his MacBook Pro today. Now throw in a pathetic iTitle and prepare your WordPress to be hit by the frontpages of the Internet. Am I missing something? What the article does show clearly though is that we're in urgent need of some nagging/whining detector, if not for the whole Internet then at least for HN's frontpage.

redial 14y ago

To all of those complaining about the new Apple devices, this is what you should do. You should vote with your wallet. I don't think that you are going to change Apple's mind, but this is the only way they'll listen. Personally, I think they are to far gone by now. The money pouring in has simply been to much to ignore. It's not the computer for the rest of us any more...It's the computer for the rest of them... (I am one of them, I just understand your argument and your frustration)

jarek 14y ago
> To all of those complaining about the new Apple devices, this is what you should do. You should vote with your wallet. But then how will people know I have Taste?
- psionski 14y ago
  The thing that's been keeping me from buying an Apple device is being associated with their users. This "better than you" attitude is something I just can't stand, it's repulsive. Instead of being ashamed that they wasted $3000 on a computer they could have had for $500 (and could have donated the other $2500), they feel smug about it? WTF!
  - jusben1369 14y ago
    I'm not sure HN does humour well. I suspect that was a little tongue in cheek.
    - psionski 14y ago
      Not at all, I really dislike people that think that just because they bought something expensive, they have rights to brag about how cool they are and how lost everyone else is. The most recent example: a friend of mine posts "Oh, no! My laptop died!", to which a Mac user comments with "That's why I bought a MacBook Pro!". When I mentioned that they fail too, he began talking about the grapes being sour and how poor I am?! I would never want to be associated with people thinking this way, ever. I bet they don't even know what a savings account is.

blhack 14y ago

Apple is making the exact same mistake the RIM made. They've gone from targeting hardcore fans, to targeting teenagers. The problem is that teenagers are quick to jump ship to the coolest new thing. Apple has been making "coolest new thing" for a while, but they're getting really popular now, which seems to be inversely proportional to "cool". For RIM, they moved away from targeting hardcore, email-addicted business people, and it made them vulnerable enough to get killed. Apple is doing the same thing.

supercoder 14y ago
RIM never moved their target. In fact I still think they try and promote the Blackberry as the device for 'email-addicted business people'. And I think it's because of the fact they thought their 'hard-core fans' would stick with them put them where they are today , not the other way around.
wvenable 14y ago
The device that made Apple what it is now is the iPod.
bonch 14y ago
> Apple is making the exact same mistake the RIM made. They've gone from targeting hardcore fans, to targeting teenagers. Not sure what you're talking about. Apple, like any major technology company, has always targeted both hardcore fans and teenagers. Nothing's changed there. On a related note, another constant in Apple's history has been its naysayers. Apple's critics are infamous for proclaiming in every year of the company's existence that it is doomed. People were saying exactly what you're saying 10 years ago when the iPod came out.
shimfish 14y ago
This mistake started when Steve Jobs returned to Apple. And now they have $80 billion dollars in the bank.
- xoail 14y ago
  $120B.

Derbasti 14y ago

I feel exactly the same way. And just like the author. I don't quite fully understand why. By the way, I don't think the author is really criticizing Apple much. He just recognizes that Apple's vision is no longer in line with his own.

supercoder 14y ago
I wonder what was the vision he thought he shared with Apple ? If you reverse all his points then it seems like in his mind Apple provided ultra customisable hardware and software with great options for the enterprise. I don't remember that Apple.
- Derbasti 14y ago
  There is that vision of the Unix with a nice UI.

drivebyacct2 14y ago

In my opinion, it's simple. 5 years ago, Apple was seemingly "light years" ahead of everyone. Kowtowing wasn't really even a thought because so much more was being provided than elsewhere that there was no real compromise to choose Apple. That's not true and is increasingly more than just untrue...

epaga 14y ago

The site isn't working for me, here it is in Google Cache: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://mergy.org/2012/12/irecognition-i-am-no-longer-apples-target-market/&hl=en&tbo=d&strip=1 http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:http://...

ripperdoc 14y ago

I can sympathize and I feel less content with Apple than I used to. I love their hardware - anyway I always find myself buying a new device rather than upgrading. Apple does great stuff but as other's I'm really worried that they won't fix their awkardness with the web. But another note - how come no one can throw in a bit of analysis to back up these kind of argument? Otherwise it just seems like typical disillusionment (as products and companies inevitably evolve). As such it doesn't mean anything, it just means one person with a blog decided to use Ubuntu. There is a guy with a blog for every product that has ever changed. Throw in some analysis, and it may make a bigger difference.

spacepig 14y ago

Will he have the same annoying and egocentric article next time another nobody decide that he no longer like a product or start being bored by drinking coffee?

shimfish 14y ago

It's simply stunning to me to see how long it's taken the computer geeks to work this out. Apple stopped making toys for you over a decade ago and you are only just realising it now? I guess this is another consequence of the filter bubble. As all we read on the internet is the opinion of other geeks, we forget that geeks are hopelessly outnumbered by normals and they are the ones Apple is targeting and reaping the rewards. This was always Steve Jobs vision and it's not like it was a secret. However, the most ludicrous part of this post is the suggestion that Apple would be best served as a company making servers again and trying its best to grab back that lucrative desktop linux market. This, in a nutshell, is why Apple was revolutionary. The geeks just simply didn't see normal people and made hardware and software that suited their own needs and behold, it sucked mightily. Apple made the step of putting the normal person first and, shockingly, normal people decided to pay good money for their products. All of this should be obvious to anyone who reads HN and witnessed Apples meteoric rise. It's a bit disconcerting to discover that apparently it isn't.

tolmasky 14y ago
The article isn't saying Apple should go back to making servers, he is just saying they are no longer serving him in particular anymore, which is fair. I will however contend that MY main issue with Apple now a-days is that its actually becoming worse on the "normal person front" (at least when it comes to OS X). Messages for example is a complete disaster. I regularly have to help family members with their Macs (many of which originally moved to the Mac on my insistence ages ago), and I can tell you that they are still quite confused (increasingly so) about how to use these machines. Here is an article that touches on this: http://blog.davidchartier.com/post/36634783567/im-getting-sick-of-making-excuses http://blog.davidchartier.com/post/36634783567/im-getting-si... However, I am still pretty happy with iOS/iDevices. I have not been as happy with an Apple product as with the iPad mini in a LONG time. I do agree with others though that if they don't get their act together with "services" (Maps, Sync, basically anything that isn't judged on a purely client side "niceness" scale), it may be an issue for them. However my opinion is that they just shouldn't be bothering with this at all, but that's a whole other story.
danieldk 14y ago
There is also a contingent of UNIX users who use Mac OS X pragmatically. I have never had the illusion that Apple wasn't a consumer device company at heart. But Macs have been great UNIX workstations for the last decade or so. Once they make more serious attempts to turn their laptop line into 'iOS computers', I'll switch back to Linux or BSD. But for now, it is good hardware with a good UNIX operating system.

macrael 14y ago

Using the svtle theme while not being part of svtle comes off as really slimy. You are ripping off someone else's work and there are no two ways about it.

TallboyOne 14y ago
https://github.com/gravityonmars/wp-svbtle https://github.com/gravityonmars/wp-svbtle
- macrael 14y ago
  Exactly? No one should use that theme.
  - aabc 14y ago
    I Agree.
georgeorwell 14y ago
Is software or hardware cloning ever OK?

caublestone 14y ago

Why does this have to be such a negative article? I would prefer to see a praising of how great the latest Ubuntu is in detail. Intro with "I've been a power mac user for x years..." and then go on to sing the praises.

Maci 14y ago
Doesn't have the intro you posit and maybe a slight off topic in places. But perhaps informative. http://eggfreckles.net/notes/my-week-with-linux/ http://eggfreckles.net/notes/my-week-with-linux/

nostromo 14y ago

The ironic ending of the blog post is interesting. He's running Ubuntu... on a MacBook Pro. Even if you hate the software and all things iOS, it's hard to find a better designed laptop.

xiaomai 14y ago
> For the first time in as long as I can remember, I know my next laptop and phone will not have a Apple logo on it.
wging 14y ago
A well-designed laptop which is heading toward zero upgradeablility.
- rimantas 14y ago
  Zero upgradeability (in the sense of zero need to upgrade: does not break, is powerful enough) is a good sign of well designed.
  - kawsper 14y ago
    So the SSD is going to work forever? Because that is what I am afraid of.
    - greedo 14y ago
      Upgradeability != repairability.
- czhiddy 14y ago
  Aside from PCMCIA/ExpressCard upgrades, which are useless nowadays thanks to USB2/3, the only upgrades available to laptops are memory + disk. RAM is cheap enough where companies can toss in 8gb (soon, 16gb) without a second thought, which is more than enough for probably 99% of the customer base for as long as the laptop is in service. That leaves the disk drive as the one non-upgradable part. I imagine part of the reason for this is the (relative) bulkiness of the 2.5" SSD form factor. Are there any other standardized sizes that could work in a rMBP form factor? 1.8" maybe? The 11" MBA may have problems fitting it, but a swappable 1.8" SSD on the larger models would be quite nice.

logn 14y ago

I think the author is maybe reading too many Apple fanboy blogs. Apple still makes OS X and all the developer tools. Developing for iOS is far easier than Android. Sure the Mac is becoming more of an appliance but with stagnant hardware speeds is it that big of a deal? Also, Apple has been hostile to DIY repairs and add-ons since forever. I remember being 12 years old arguing on the 1-800-APPL-SOS help line that 3rd party RAM was not causing my problem and no I wouldn't uninstall it to get help. Apple relies on its developers to power the App Store. They (hopefully) won't forget that. I'm not worried. You don't hear anyone ever talking about how awesome Apple Logic is for making music or how easy Final Cut Pro is for video. They still make them and they're great quality. Just because the masses of Apple reporters aren't focused on your baby doesn't mean Apple doesn't care about it. Apple is just selling their profit vision to investors.

randomdata 14y ago
Apple relies on its developers to power the App Store. They (hopefully) won't forget that. Well, I'm sure they won't forget the 25 [1]. They may forget about everyone else though. [1] http://techcrunch.com/2012/12/04/analyst-just-25-developers-grabbed-50-of-app-revenues-on-u-s-app-store-google-play-last-month-earning-60m-between-them/ http://techcrunch.com/2012/12/04/analyst-just-25-developers-...

pirateking 14y ago

Computer as appliance means not a general-purpose computer. If you cannot use it to execute your own code and access the hardware, then it is not general-purpose. That means the new wave of locked down computers are instead multi-purpose computers - those purposes being defined by what it cannot do. Apple makes damn good multi-purpose machines for the most common purposes of most people - which they have consistently explained is their company's goal forever. Just look at their general-purpose tools (XServe, Mac Pro, Developer Tools) being neglected, and single-purpose machines being cannibalized (iPod) or taken lightly (Apple TV). All of Apple's lineup is of respectable quality, but it is obvious where the focus is converging. Now there is an opening for others to explore new general-purpose and single-purpose machines.

sjmulder 14y ago

I don’t agree with the point on convergence. It seems clear to me that Apple is not turning OS X into iOS. It’s still very much a WIMP interface best suited for keyboard and mouse. Windows 8 is a good example of PC/tablet convergence, and however much you like or dislike that approach, it’s the opposite of what Apple is doing. On some other points I do agree, like the gluing down and lack of expandability/repairability.

aabc 14y ago

I don't get this. Why are you using svbtle theme if you don't belong to the svbtle community ? I know there is some wordpress theme out there that clones svbtle but it's not an excuse. Using svbtle theme does not make you smarter.

pjzedalis 14y ago
Perhaps he found the clone and liked it. It is possible he had no idea what svbtle is. It's also possible he does not care. Knowing he is not in svbtle does not make you smarter.

BenoitEssiambre 14y ago

I wish to concur the statement that Ubuntu is now the fastest most user friendly modern OS out there. Try it you might be surprised.

SquareWheel 14y ago
Has much changed in two years? Every once in a while I hear Linux is finally user friendly, and I go try it and my multiple monitors don't work and my graphics card drivers require manual installation and I get constantly riddled with permissions prompts which I'm sure is necessary but still annoys me as an end user.
- hippee-lee 14y ago
  Not much has changed. I stopped upgrading my work desktop because the drivers for my wired Ethernet needs to be recompiled every Ubuntu upgrade. Very annoying when I am in the middle of a sprint and I have to stop to figure out why basic things are no longer working.
- djisjke 14y ago
  It has. But there is still the ol' quirks. I had problems with sounds on ubuntu on my ThinkPad. I had to install XFCE for it to play nice with 2 monitors (since the gpu in the old laptop is kind of sucky). But Macosx has even worse compability, so if you buy computer parts that are knows to play nice with linux you'll have a swell time :). Also, when you start playing with tiling window managers you'll be glad you don't have a mac.

glogla 14y ago

Sadly, I'm still in Apple's target market, because Lenovo is unable to put reasonable displays in their 14" laptops.

netcan 14y ago

This emotion in this blog is in a lot of ways revealing about Apple. The writer sounds hurt. I don't think Microsoft would have attracted this kind of response. For me, I tend to look at changes in terms of their effect on the ecosystem as whole. From that perspective, I'm very glad that Apple exist, as they are. I like that Apple is fanatically adherent to its ideologies. Taking things to extremes is also a good way of discovering principles and the uncovering the costs of compromises. In any case, I think An ipad is extremely simple. The pool of people who can become completely comfortable with it in a few days is larger then for any other computer. It's metaphors are tidiest. An iOS app is a more clearly defined concept, for example, then it is on Android. A fanatic trying to prove that a simple life on $500 per person per month is the ideal way of living probably isn't right, but she is useful to have in your life. She will probably make all sorts of discoveries that will enhance your life, even if you don't buy her entire ideology. In your life you will be making all sorts of compromises. These have tradeoffs. Inevitably you will be wrong about the pros & cons of some choices. Maybe glued together hardware is not worth the tradeoff. Maybe it is. Maybe it is sometimes. Now we get to find out. At the end of 2012, things look better than they did 1 year ago from this perspective. We have several viable operating systems from three very different companies. It seems likely & possible that new entrants will appear if those three don't cover all needs.

kayoone 14y ago

The thing is, every company in the comsumer PC space would go the exact same route as Apple if they could. Look at Dell, HP etc trying to mimic Apples every move in the consumer computing space. Microsoft doing an AppStore model in Windows 8 etc. If its not Apple, somebody else would gladly take its place and it might be the fate of any of todays most popular consumer computing company. Now of course you can still use Linux and build your own PC, but you will, and have always been, a minority in the market.

greedo 14y ago
I'm old. I remember back in the 70's, a neighbor of my grandparents who was building his own color TV. This was probably around 1973, and I think it might have been a HeathKit. I thought that was the coolest thing! Unsurprisingly, there weren't a lot of people building their own TVs. I've paid my dues, physically building servers, installing various BSDs from stacks of CDs, fighting with compilers on Solaris x86, queuing my jobs on my university's PDP11. Now I'm content to just use OSX, or RHEL, or even AIX if required. But I continually try to avoid transferring my own preferences into a jeremiad against whatever's popular. Apple will continue to do well as long as it serves its customers. It's gone from being Apple Computers Inc. to Apple. That's a hint of where they see their focus being.

gramsey 14y ago

> You are about unit sales now. You need more and more consumers to want to get the latest Apple device. I get it. I don’t agree with it, but that is where you are now. This author seems personally hurt by the fact that Apple rapidly releasing new devices, as if he feels that he is being obligated to purchase the latest products as soon as they come out and doesn't want to. Is there a small, vocal minority of the Apple fanbase that has to have the latest thing? Certainly. But the average user does not, and has no need to upgrade their Macbook Air just because a new one comes out a year later. In fact, I've had mine for a year and a half, and I have no need or desire to upgrade anytime soon. > I didn’t jump at the iPhone 5. I wasn’t in-line on day one like I was with the iPhone 3 and iPhone 4. I am unsure why I just didn’t care anymore. Great, you don't need to care! Before the iPhone was released, would you have stood in line for a phone at all? I know people who still use the iPhone 3G and have no issues, because they don't need a retina display or the ability to run intense games, they just want a phone that works. Either this author: (1) Wants to have bleeding-technology all the time but is offended by the fact that he would have to pay for it often, or (2) Is so brainwashed by the blogomania surrounding Apple that he is unsatisfied with the fact that the company keeps fairly rapid release cycles, therefore causing his products to technically be "older versions".

nicholassmith 14y ago

I've been a Mac user for nearly a decade, first machine I bought was a G4 12" iBook. My Uni final year project was a Cocoa app when saying "Hey I'm making a Mac App!" got you strange looks. I've also developed on Linux for work for about 5/6 years. Sometimes, even cross-platform OS X/Linux development. Has the situation changed and 'nerds' are no longer Apple's target market? Kind of. A bit. If you cared about upgradability and taking that machine and using it for 6 years and it being awesome then sure, Apple's changed. It's not for you. If like me you came to Apple as you had no interest in upgrading a machine, ever, at all, then they've not changed. I still have: a built in, relatively decent Terminal. I have command line build tools (and yes we can argue about the quality, and whether Apple should be forking their own versions, but that's a topic for another day). Apple ships their own IDE & SDK for the system, to anyone, and they've done that for as long as I've been using them as well. Apple reducing upgradability isn't them thumbing their noses at us. When they release a version of the OS without a Terminal we can all go "Well, Apple has moved on from us developers", or if they pull XCode from the App Store. Until then, it's Apple improving their products inline with what a large portion of people want.

bambax 14y ago
> If like me you came to Apple as you had no interest in upgrading a machine, ever, at all, then they've not changed. Not true; at some point in time versions of OS X kind of stop working (no new version of Firefox or Chrome for you if you're running anything prior to 10.5 for example).
- nicholassmith 14y ago
  Sorry, I should have been more clear about hardware upgrading versus software upgrading. But you do raise an interesting point, as Apple progresses their software so do companies, so if Firefox and Chrome no longer work then is that the responsibility of Apple? I'd say no, and I'd say OS X 10.5 is still a mighty good OS with excellent features throughout, but I don't blame FF and Chrome for moving forward.
- cynwoody 14y ago
  Prior to 10.6, actually. I just upgraded from 10.5 to 10.6.8 for that very reason.

JuDue 14y ago

If you want an upgradable computer, then all-in-one designs were never going to be the economical path. Predicting this guy just needs to wait to see the next Mac Pro. I'm still delighted with Apple. Both iOS and OSX are prime for some rethinking (beyond a few licks of paint). But I do think Apple is in a far better position to do this well and in their own time now the Windows 8 threat has imploded on itself (somewhat ... well, at least it's not found huge momentum yet).

revscat 14y ago

You know, I was so happy when I discovered HN. It is normally such a refreshing respite from all the other tech blogs and aggregators, and from /r/tech in particular. But over the past few weeks I keep seeing vapid, information-less articles like this make it to the front page, and it's pretty disappointing to see happen. The knee-jerk anti-Apple sentiments seem to have infected even this (mostly) austere and considerate site. I hope this is a temporary thing.

hack_edu 14y ago
It's not a temporary thing, and in fact had been going on for a few years now. We are currently in the phase of blatant link bait self posted blogs gaming the front page. Prior to this tend for the past year or so, there was the "rah-rah look at this cool startup and secretly plug my own" phase. The current one will likely continue until a big bust or something else comes along. Likely the latter.

phy6 14y ago

Man, his phrasing is awkward and annoying.

jsz0 14y ago

Couldn't disagree more. I'm very happy with Apple's current software/hardware products. Won't bother to go into detail since the author doesn't go into detail much with his gripes either. Not worth the keystrokes. (semi related I'm downright giddy about the new iTunes. I think it's a great sign of where Apple's desktop software is heading)

rymith 14y ago

I am so tired of this bullshit. The iMac was never upgradeable, and it isn't designed to be. You needed two giant suction cups to get into it, and less than 0.5% of iMac owners ever did this. To buy an all in one for it's upgradability is simply retarded. You could upgrade the RAM or the hard drive, and on the new 27", you can upgrade the RAM with the push of a button. So lets please cut the straw man arguments. You want to be cool for hating on Apple, and decided that ignominious post would do it. The problem, you just look like a fool. Apple has never made an easily upgradeable all in one, And yet, if you want to customize a Mac, you still have that option with the MacPro. Lets call out the real reason; you want to feel cool. You felt Apple made you cool when they had a tiny market share, but now has too many users for you to feel exclusive.

rayiner 14y ago

These articles are such a load of crap, for a simple reason: Mac is still the development environment for iPad, and Apple is all about Apps, Apps, Apps. OS X is better and faster than it has ever been. It's not any more locked down than it has ever been. It has more features than it ever has. Apple's laptops are less upgradable, but since when have laptops been particularly upgradable? You can do "real work" on an iPad. It's a phenomenal machine for consuming and producing text. As a lawyer I spend my life reading or writing text. The retina screen is an absolute revelation for that. I can't run CAD programs on it, but then again I never did on my Mac either.

PagingCraig 14y ago

Boring rant piece.

ebbv 14y ago

Another day another one of these absurd, self-righteous blog posts. What's hilarious to me is that only Apple draws this kind of posturing and absurdity. You don't see blog posts like this about Dell or Sony. But you DID see posts like this about Microsoft in the '90s. It's really more about standing up and decrying whatever company is on top than anything else. People feel like by slagging on the top tech company they are taking a stance as an independent, righteous, thoughtful person. When in reality they are taking the most obvious, boring position available.

forthewyn 14y ago
A-men. The self righteous tone gets SO old after a while. What's also strange to me is that these posts get the up votes they do. is this REALLY news to anyone?

forthewyn 14y ago

Quite honestly, this kind of post just makes me want to hurl. The OP was NEVER the target market for Apple, it just so happened that Apple's design choices coincided with his or her needs. If you ever thought Apple's primary target market was uber-geeks, you were seriously deluding yourself. The reason so many of us were drawn to OSX was that it runs Mach BSD under the hood - so yay, we all get a nice convenient UNIX(TM) workstation that also runs commercial software and games. I've got to admit I'm getting awfully sick of this kind of meaningless hand wringing. You want commodity hardware and the ability to tinker with everything* then by all means go buy a Linux box, just don't get all high and mighty and act as if Apple has betrayed you, because from their perspective exactly nothing has changed.

gavinlynch 14y ago
I'm amazed it took so long for someone to make this point. That was going to be my only response: "Yes, you're right. You're not the target market. End of Story."

calinet6 14y ago

What a tired, sensationalist argument. Use what you like, embrace change, stop complaining.

tharris0101 14y ago

Full Disclosure: I'm an Apple user that has been criticizing them for the last few years for a variety of things but... This article (at least the first half) comes down to: Apple makes products that don't suit me (okay, so don't buy an iPad). Apple has glued their new screens to the metal (Is this really that big of a deal?). Apple uses proprietary screws (This has been done for years) There are lots of things in the curated Mac App Store that are of no use to him (So don't use the App Store or don't buy apps that are useless to you) In the comments, the OP admits that he will continue to use Apple hardware because it is the best but will run Linux (Apple makes their money off hardware sales, so its of no loss to them). There are many reasons to criticize Apple lately, I just don't see these reasons as having merit.