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Why do you think a UN-hosted process would work? Has the UN done similarly intrusive things before and been effective at it? How do you account for Chinese fron
by tptacek 4mo ago
Why do you think a UN-hosted process would work? Has the UN done similarly intrusive things before and been effective at it? How do you account for Chinese frontier and open weights models, which are just months behind American models and subsidized by a sovereign state that does not share any of these premises about intellectual property?
A lot of these posts seem subtextually premised on the idea that it's possible to put the genie back into the bottle; that if frontier labs in America didn't sign on to this tolling scheme, our recourse would be to halt the progression of AI completely. But that option does not exist, unless we're going to fight a world war to create it.
- MichaelZuo 4mo agoThis comment seems incoherent? Even if the UN only has a very small amount of legitimacy and credibility… that’s still far far better than literally zero.
- tptacek 4mo agoWell, I mean, the alternative is for a US-based process to be put into place, followed (or led) by an EU process. The premise of my comment is that no matter who hosts the process, China isn't going to comply, so it really just comes down to the US and Europe.
- MichaelZuo 4mo agoWhat? There are over 190 nations in the UN. Even if we assume a chunk have no credible claim whatsoever, that’s still well over a hundred.
- tptacek 4mo agoThere are not in fact 100 nations that will seriously contend for frontier models.
- MichaelZuo 4mo agoYou need to re-read the comment chain. Nobody claimed so many nations would contend for frontier models. I’m talking about training data, and so is the parent.
- tptacek 4mo agoThe only jurisdictions where training data is going to matter are in the US, Europe, and China. I think we're just talking past each other. My subtextual point is that none of this is ever going to happen.
- MichaelZuo 4mo agoThis really makes no sense, as if half the words in the reply were garbled. e.g. How is whether the training data from this or that jurisdiction “matter”, or not, even relevant to my comment? I haven’t even thought of any specific “matter” enough threshold to evaluate that.
- voakbasda 4mo agoThere are legal matters and ethical matters being discussed. Legally, it does not matter. Ethically, it does.
- MichaelZuo 4mo ago[dead]
- zombot 4mo agoAnd the US isn't going to comply either. Just like it never recognized the International Criminal Court in The Hague. In that respect it's at least as bad as China.