5 ms·

> being against dumb regulation that only ads unnecessary bureaucracy or stops/limits progress Does such strawman regulation even exist? Some regulation is int

by datsci_est_2015 4mo ago

> being against dumb regulation that only ads unnecessary bureaucracy or stops/limits progress Does such strawman regulation even exist? Some regulation is intentionally designed to limit “progress”, where “progress” happens to have negative externalities. It’s kind of a self-legitimizing opinion. Of course anyone would be against unnecessary regulations. I think the real world is not arguing about whether a regulation is necessary, but rather if the economic burden it creates is worth the positive impact it has on society, which is highly contentious, highly subjective debate.

braiamp 4mo ago
Only the regulation that doesn't evolve with the time or written so that it stays within the confines of a context that doesn't exists. Certain big country constitution is a prime example of that.
homer456 4mo ago
It takes a minimum of 600 hours of training to get licensed to cut hair in California. Pex plumbing is banned in Chicago as a union protectionist regulation. The "chicken tax" regulation scheme has screwed up the US truck market for decades. Electrical code requirements for the wiring of kitchen islands have changed drastically with very small justification within a short span of time. To this day it is illegal to trade onion futures in Chicago due to an attempt to corner the market on onions decades ago(probably over a century can't be bothered to check). Many European countries have draconian laws about air conditioning that are killing people this summer. The affordable care act is written in such a way that the only way for insurers to increase their profit margin on health plans is to increase the cost they pay out to providers ("gold plating") CAFE fuel economy standards have lead to the arms race of increased vehicle sizes for unnecessary reasons.
- khriss 4mo ago
  [dead]
- djankauskas 4mo ago
  These are excellent examples. Regulations are not inherently good or bad, and one of the issues we seem to have in the US is a lack of honest accounting, sometimes purposefully and sometimes due to a lack of state capacity, what the costs and benefits of different regulations are.
- rgmerk 4mo ago
  > Many European countries have draconian laws about air conditioning that are killing people this summer Cite your sources. There are specific issues in specific places (eg heritage restrictions in Paris), a higher prevalence of shared infrastructure rather than single family homes, and a higher level of renting rather than home ownership. And there are people on the green-left end of the political spectrum in parts of northern Europe with weird hangups about air conditioning. But as best I can tell this claim is false; the biggest reason why air conditioning is not so widespread in Northern Europe as in the United States is that the climate simply hasn’t, until recently, required it.
  - kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4mo ago
    > climate simply hasn’t, until recently, required it. I would qualify that as it hasn't required it since the invention of air conditioning. Which also isn't strictly true; the high temperature for Paris on July 1st this year is identical to the high for the same day back in 2015[1], and there are several times since 1970 that the temperature was over 30C. Other sources[2] indicate 1947 was just as brutal as 2019 and 2022, and the warmest night was in 1772 (27.5C) [1] https://weatheronthisday.com/intl/paris/7/1 https://weatheronthisday.com/intl/paris/7/1 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Paris https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Paris (standard Wikipedia reliability warning applies)
    - rplnt 4mo ago
      Outside air temperature isn't an issue. It's not like people drop dead the moment it hits 40. The problem is that after a few days of that everything is heated up through and you have no place to escape it. That's new and hasn't been happening before.
      - account42 4mo ago
        But "somewhat longer heatwave" isn't as scary sounding as "HOTTEST EVER RECORDED TEMPERATURE IN $LOCALE!!!!!!" which is why all the scaremongers keep screaming the latter.
- Forgeties79 4mo ago
  > Many European countries have draconian laws about air conditioning that are killing people this summer. I keep seeing people say this but they don’t have any evidence, seen it tons online the last few weeks even on HN. What’s the deal? One person the other day went so far as to say that multiple EU nations have banned AC, which is completely false. You can absolutely have air-conditioning in Europe. Some places have stricter rules about permanent installation, such as HVACs in older areas, but there are plenty of air-conditioning units people can just pick up and use the same day in those cases. You can get AC units in European nations. You don’t have to just roast for no reason because of the government.
  - rplnt 4mo ago
    Just to add, the regulations you mention aren't even about AC, it's about modifying buildings' "looks". You can still install AC if you figure out where to put the outside unit - roof, balcony, inner yard, ... Not everyone has the ability to install personal unit where they live, that's true, same way they can't install satellite dishes for example.
- scott_w 4mo ago
  I’ll take your word on the other points but this one: > Many European countries have draconian laws about air conditioning that are killing people this summer. Needs some debunking. In fact, I think you may have been fed lies because the UK government felt the need to specifically call this out: https://mhclgmedia.blog.gov.uk/2026/06/25/air-conditioning-rules/ https://mhclgmedia.blog.gov.uk/2026/06/25/air-conditioning-r... In short: AC in the home is legal in the UK subject to following regulations, both national and local. Councils are generally happy to tell you how to comply, in my experience with building control.
  - AnthonyMouse 4mo ago
    Reading that sort of thing is kind of amusing, e.g.: > In most cases, planning permission is not required to install it for a small home if it would not materially affect the appearance of the building from outside. Substantially all air conditioning units affect the appearance of the building from the outside because they require a coil or vent somewhere on the exterior of the building to expel heat. > Building regulations already require new residential buildings, including houses, flats, student accommodation, residential care homes and children's homes, to be designed to minimise overheating. If planning permission for aircon was denied, worry not, because the building code now requires measures that will keep some new buildings to a temperature ten or twenty degrees cooler than the older buildings (planning permission for aircon likewise denied), which is quite a difference when even the newer buildings are over 100 degrees Fahrenheit. They wouldn't need to spin it like this if there weren't actually buildings where people want to install air conditioning and are prohibited from it, because if that was the case they would have said that.
    - scott_w 4mo ago
      You're completely misreading regulations. "Materially affect" does not cover things like "puts a unit outside" because otherwise putting a satellite does would "materially affect the appearance of the building from outside," yet millions of people get Sky TV. > If planning permission for aircon was denied Again, this is not part of the article because it literally says you don't need planning permission! There are regulations you must follow about the size and location but, as long as those are followed, you don't need planning permission. At most, you alert Building Control who will tell you the process and, as long as you follow it, they will sign it off. For the avoidance of doubt: getting work signed off by your council's Building Control department is not planning permission. As long as your work follows the regulations, they will sign it off. Planning permission is ONLY needed if you want to do work outside of what building regs normally allow for residential properties. > They wouldn't need to spin it like this if there weren't actually buildings where people want to install air conditioning and are prohibited from it They wouldn't need to spin it like this if the media and their useful idiots like you didn't outright lie about what was actually happening.
- gusgus01 4mo ago
  Are you agreeing with the parent and giving examples of regulations that have been debated? Or are you trying to give examples of some of the "strawmen" regulations? A lot of these examples are pretty subjective or missing context...
- zahlman 4mo ago
  > decades ago(probably over a century can't be bothered to check). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion_Futures_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion_Futures_Act passed in 1958, just FYI.
- Asmod4n 4mo ago
  > Many European countries have draconian laws about air conditioning that are killing people this summer. There are very few laws which can say what you are allowed to do with your owned house. One of them is when it is of historical value. Then you aren’t allowed to change pretty much anything. The rest are just landlords who want to fuck you over.
autoexec 4mo ago
> Does such strawman regulation even exist? Yes, the DMCA is a great example, but corporations write those regulations and bribe government to pass them. That's not really an example of evil government as much as it is an example of evil corporations, although it does illustrate how much work is needed to limit the influence of money in politics.
- AnthonyMouse 4mo ago
  > That's not really an example of evil government as much as it is an example of evil corporations It's the corporation's job to advocate for favorable regulations and the government's job to enact regulations that benefit the general public rather than special interests. Only one of them is bad at their job. > although it does illustrate how much work is needed to limit the influence of money in politics. It's actually the perfect example of something where "money in politics" isn't the problem. The companies that lobby for the DMCA are the media companies. They donate their share of money but by far the largest source of their influence is their ability to run sustained unfavorable coverage against politicians who cross them, which would continue to be the case even if they couldn't transfer a dime into the politician's own coffers.
  - autoexec 4mo ago
    > It's the corporation's job to advocate for favorable regulations Bribery is not advocacy. > the government's job to enact regulations that benefit the general public rather than special interests. No argument there, but so far companies and corrupt politicians have conned a large percentage of the public into accepting that it's okay and that any constraints on what a company wants to do is a terrible thing. We're currently under a very pro-bribery admin. > The companies that lobby for the DMCA are the media companies. They donate their share of money but by far the largest source of their influence is their ability to run sustained unfavorable coverage against politicians who cross them I'm not entirely convinced that media coverage is more influential than bribes, donations, and the revolving door. That argument also only works for the media industry and not the other countless industries which bribe government. The oil and gas industry have been getting their money's worth https://www.forbes.com/sites/saradorn/2024/05/10/energy-industry-already-giving-trump-millions-while-he-promises-big-cutbacks-in-seeking-1-billion-donation/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/saradorn/2024/05/10/energy-indu...

braiamp 4mo ago

Only the regulation that doesn't evolve with the time or written so that it stays within the confines of a context that doesn't exists. Certain big country constitution is a prime example of that.

homer456 4mo ago

It takes a minimum of 600 hours of training to get licensed to cut hair in California. Pex plumbing is banned in Chicago as a union protectionist regulation. The "chicken tax" regulation scheme has screwed up the US truck market for decades. Electrical code requirements for the wiring of kitchen islands have changed drastically with very small justification within a short span of time. To this day it is illegal to trade onion futures in Chicago due to an attempt to corner the market on onions decades ago(probably over a century can't be bothered to check). Many European countries have draconian laws about air conditioning that are killing people this summer. The affordable care act is written in such a way that the only way for insurers to increase their profit margin on health plans is to increase the cost they pay out to providers ("gold plating") CAFE fuel economy standards have lead to the arms race of increased vehicle sizes for unnecessary reasons.

khriss 4mo ago
[dead]
djankauskas 4mo ago
These are excellent examples. Regulations are not inherently good or bad, and one of the issues we seem to have in the US is a lack of honest accounting, sometimes purposefully and sometimes due to a lack of state capacity, what the costs and benefits of different regulations are.
rgmerk 4mo ago
> Many European countries have draconian laws about air conditioning that are killing people this summer Cite your sources. There are specific issues in specific places (eg heritage restrictions in Paris), a higher prevalence of shared infrastructure rather than single family homes, and a higher level of renting rather than home ownership. And there are people on the green-left end of the political spectrum in parts of northern Europe with weird hangups about air conditioning. But as best I can tell this claim is false; the biggest reason why air conditioning is not so widespread in Northern Europe as in the United States is that the climate simply hasn’t, until recently, required it.
- kQq9oHeAz6wLLS 4mo ago
  > climate simply hasn’t, until recently, required it. I would qualify that as it hasn't required it since the invention of air conditioning. Which also isn't strictly true; the high temperature for Paris on July 1st this year is identical to the high for the same day back in 2015[1], and there are several times since 1970 that the temperature was over 30C. Other sources[2] indicate 1947 was just as brutal as 2019 and 2022, and the warmest night was in 1772 (27.5C) [1] https://weatheronthisday.com/intl/paris/7/1 https://weatheronthisday.com/intl/paris/7/1 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Paris https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_of_Paris (standard Wikipedia reliability warning applies)
  - rplnt 4mo ago
    Outside air temperature isn't an issue. It's not like people drop dead the moment it hits 40. The problem is that after a few days of that everything is heated up through and you have no place to escape it. That's new and hasn't been happening before.
    - account42 4mo ago
      But "somewhat longer heatwave" isn't as scary sounding as "HOTTEST EVER RECORDED TEMPERATURE IN $LOCALE!!!!!!" which is why all the scaremongers keep screaming the latter.
Forgeties79 4mo ago
> Many European countries have draconian laws about air conditioning that are killing people this summer. I keep seeing people say this but they don’t have any evidence, seen it tons online the last few weeks even on HN. What’s the deal? One person the other day went so far as to say that multiple EU nations have banned AC, which is completely false. You can absolutely have air-conditioning in Europe. Some places have stricter rules about permanent installation, such as HVACs in older areas, but there are plenty of air-conditioning units people can just pick up and use the same day in those cases. You can get AC units in European nations. You don’t have to just roast for no reason because of the government.
- rplnt 4mo ago
  Just to add, the regulations you mention aren't even about AC, it's about modifying buildings' "looks". You can still install AC if you figure out where to put the outside unit - roof, balcony, inner yard, ... Not everyone has the ability to install personal unit where they live, that's true, same way they can't install satellite dishes for example.
scott_w 4mo ago
I’ll take your word on the other points but this one: > Many European countries have draconian laws about air conditioning that are killing people this summer. Needs some debunking. In fact, I think you may have been fed lies because the UK government felt the need to specifically call this out: https://mhclgmedia.blog.gov.uk/2026/06/25/air-conditioning-rules/ https://mhclgmedia.blog.gov.uk/2026/06/25/air-conditioning-r... In short: AC in the home is legal in the UK subject to following regulations, both national and local. Councils are generally happy to tell you how to comply, in my experience with building control.
- AnthonyMouse 4mo ago
  Reading that sort of thing is kind of amusing, e.g.: > In most cases, planning permission is not required to install it for a small home if it would not materially affect the appearance of the building from outside. Substantially all air conditioning units affect the appearance of the building from the outside because they require a coil or vent somewhere on the exterior of the building to expel heat. > Building regulations already require new residential buildings, including houses, flats, student accommodation, residential care homes and children's homes, to be designed to minimise overheating. If planning permission for aircon was denied, worry not, because the building code now requires measures that will keep some new buildings to a temperature ten or twenty degrees cooler than the older buildings (planning permission for aircon likewise denied), which is quite a difference when even the newer buildings are over 100 degrees Fahrenheit. They wouldn't need to spin it like this if there weren't actually buildings where people want to install air conditioning and are prohibited from it, because if that was the case they would have said that.
  - scott_w 4mo ago
    You're completely misreading regulations. "Materially affect" does not cover things like "puts a unit outside" because otherwise putting a satellite does would "materially affect the appearance of the building from outside," yet millions of people get Sky TV. > If planning permission for aircon was denied Again, this is not part of the article because it literally says you don't need planning permission! There are regulations you must follow about the size and location but, as long as those are followed, you don't need planning permission. At most, you alert Building Control who will tell you the process and, as long as you follow it, they will sign it off. For the avoidance of doubt: getting work signed off by your council's Building Control department is not planning permission. As long as your work follows the regulations, they will sign it off. Planning permission is ONLY needed if you want to do work outside of what building regs normally allow for residential properties. > They wouldn't need to spin it like this if there weren't actually buildings where people want to install air conditioning and are prohibited from it They wouldn't need to spin it like this if the media and their useful idiots like you didn't outright lie about what was actually happening.
gusgus01 4mo ago
Are you agreeing with the parent and giving examples of regulations that have been debated? Or are you trying to give examples of some of the "strawmen" regulations? A lot of these examples are pretty subjective or missing context...
zahlman 4mo ago
> decades ago(probably over a century can't be bothered to check). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion_Futures_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Onion_Futures_Act passed in 1958, just FYI.
Asmod4n 4mo ago
> Many European countries have draconian laws about air conditioning that are killing people this summer. There are very few laws which can say what you are allowed to do with your owned house. One of them is when it is of historical value. Then you aren’t allowed to change pretty much anything. The rest are just landlords who want to fuck you over.

autoexec 4mo ago

> Does such strawman regulation even exist? Yes, the DMCA is a great example, but corporations write those regulations and bribe government to pass them. That's not really an example of evil government as much as it is an example of evil corporations, although it does illustrate how much work is needed to limit the influence of money in politics.

AnthonyMouse 4mo ago
> That's not really an example of evil government as much as it is an example of evil corporations It's the corporation's job to advocate for favorable regulations and the government's job to enact regulations that benefit the general public rather than special interests. Only one of them is bad at their job. > although it does illustrate how much work is needed to limit the influence of money in politics. It's actually the perfect example of something where "money in politics" isn't the problem. The companies that lobby for the DMCA are the media companies. They donate their share of money but by far the largest source of their influence is their ability to run sustained unfavorable coverage against politicians who cross them, which would continue to be the case even if they couldn't transfer a dime into the politician's own coffers.
- autoexec 4mo ago
  > It's the corporation's job to advocate for favorable regulations Bribery is not advocacy. > the government's job to enact regulations that benefit the general public rather than special interests. No argument there, but so far companies and corrupt politicians have conned a large percentage of the public into accepting that it's okay and that any constraints on what a company wants to do is a terrible thing. We're currently under a very pro-bribery admin. > The companies that lobby for the DMCA are the media companies. They donate their share of money but by far the largest source of their influence is their ability to run sustained unfavorable coverage against politicians who cross them I'm not entirely convinced that media coverage is more influential than bribes, donations, and the revolving door. That argument also only works for the media industry and not the other countless industries which bribe government. The oil and gas industry have been getting their money's worth https://www.forbes.com/sites/saradorn/2024/05/10/energy-industry-already-giving-trump-millions-while-he-promises-big-cutbacks-in-seeking-1-billion-donation/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/saradorn/2024/05/10/energy-indu...