5 ms·

Invalidate this startup idea - 500 dollar prototype

12 points by padseeker 14y ago

I had an idea based on my many conversations with non techies with web or mobile app based ideas. It seems they always spend way too much on building their idea from scratch, even if they use offshore resources OR they forgo it completely as it is too hard to manage. I've lost track of the amount of times I've put palm to forehead when I listen to a non-techie tell me how they spent thousands building their idea from scratch, when they could have used using that was already build - like a wordpress plugin, a rails or django clone with some extra work, or goodness knows what else. But they never even thought to ask around about other avenues. So here is the idea - A proposer (a non techie type) posts their idea, and a bunch of technically savvy hacker news types propose ways to build the prototype for 500 or less, and people up/down vote stuff like stackexchange. Perhaps use crowdsourcing for others to up/down vote the proposals. The winning proposal wins and builds it for 500, minus a nominal fee that goes to the company. The proposer can always continue using the builder of the prototype after the prototype is built, or they could take it to someone else. And 500 bucks is not chump change but it isn't a huge investment on the part of the proposer. Just upvote this post if you would consider putting your hat in the ring to build a prototype for $500, or at least vote in other proposals.

bitcoder 14y ago
I guess the concept is ultimately a 2-sided market of 'proposers' and 'builders', so the challenge would be balancing them effectively. I think its unlikely you'd ever have a problem with too many builders and not enough ideas. I think the challenge will be attracting builders (i.e. developers) who are willing to build these prototypes. As you've probably heard, developers are in high demand right now. A hacker worth his salt is probably charging at least $100/hr, so $500 for a prototype doesn't sound that attractive.
alokhar 14y ago
Cool idea, but one question. Are you talking about developers ripping off non-techies buy building the idea from scratch, or the non-techies themselves trying to build it from scratch because they don't know better alternatives?
DanBC 14y ago
A neat idea. It's a nice fit with something like Bountify (you'd use bountify for the smaller things, and your site for the larger projects). Here are a couple of questions. These aren't meant to be bashing or knocking! Sorry if they sound that way. * How will you cope if an idiot claims to be able to do something, and wins, and then makes an awful mess of things? * How does licensing work? If Ann writes some code for Bob who owns the code? (And if Ann is working at some place that claims ownership of all her code, do they own this?)
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- padseeker 14y ago
  you could I guess have a process - for custom apps the winner needs to post their code on github, and others can review the deployed app on heroku? There are plenty of holes with that as a technical person could pose as a non techie then grab the code and make off with it. But the proposer's money would be in escrow, and if the finished product works and, oh i dunno if the other hackers give it the stamp of approval.... Which that is a whole other bag of worms, if enough hackers are vindictive enough to vote a working idea down. I'm making this up as I go along. I'm willing to be swayed in a different direction.
jamesjguthrie 14y ago
I quite like this idea and could maybe see myself posting on a site like this. What I don't like is the "500 or less" part, at that point it becomes a bidding war and will inevitably be taken over by India-based devs just like every other coder for hire site.
Mz 14y ago
I am a non-techie. I think I need to learn the technical part to make my thingamawhop. I don't think it will fly otherwise. Maybe my situation is unique. Maybe not. What if it is not? What if a lot of non-techies need to learn and grow with the process of trying to breathe life into their idea? What if your idea amounts to the guy who snipped the cocoon to make things easier on the emerging butterfly, thereby tragically crippling it and permanently denying it the ability to ever fly?
- padseeker 14y ago
  Having someone build the prototype can help you learn how to build/enhance/operate your thingamawhop. And if you feel that strongly then don't use this non existent business idea. And you are not the typical non-technical founder. If you have any interest in learning by all means do it! This is not for you. AND EVEN SO! This could be the thing that gets you or someone else on the right track to decide what to do. You might be tempted to build the thing from scratch when you should have bought a plugin for wordpress/joomla and then learned PHP and the framework where the plugin is built. It will help you make the most pragmatic decision, which might not be build it from scratch.
  - Mz 14y ago
    I don't really want to learn. I wish someone could help me zap it into existence. But that hasn't happened so far. And it is looking unlikely. But my personal situation is neither here nor there. You asked for invalidation. That is my thought: That in spite of the number of times that the value of the "idea" gets pissed on here, there is some internal process that goes on in the founders. Y-combinator is more interested in funding the tight people, not the right initial conceptualization. Building the thing is often part of the growth process for the founders, a process I struggle to articulate adequately. Perhaps you would be killing that process, throwing the baby out with the bath water, so to speak.
- bradleysmith 14y ago
  I am a non-techie that also believes I ought to learn the technical part to breathe life into my thingamawhop. I would still love the ability to know if someone could make it right now right now for $500. If you snip the cocoon by putting it on doitfor500.com, that's on you, right? Where there's a want, there's a product. I'd post my thingamawhop.
kennywinker 14y ago
Sounds like a subreddit, not a website. </irony>
- padseeker 14y ago
  yeah, I think that is a valid criticism. Actually it feels a lot closer to a Stack Exchange site, not including the way to transfer a payment from one person to another. I like how stack exchange tracks reputations and allows people to up/down vote answers to questions.
- duncan_bayne 14y ago
  It does sound like a subreddit, actually. I don't see what's ironic about your statement?
vlokshin 14y ago
Hmmmm... LaunchSky.com definitely comes to mind
stevejalim 14y ago
Affordable prototypes make sense, but what about the $500 level setting false expectations for the cost of the production-quality app? If you're pitching this at non-techies, you'll also have to get them over the hump of realising that a lash-up is easily an order of magnitude cheaper than a decent, real-world-robust version. "Hey, WTF are you doing quoting me £5000 for a full build of this app? I had the prototype done for $500 and it does almost as much as the real one I want."
soupangel 14y ago
My main problem with this proposal, is that WE all know that $500 buys you a rough prototype or a proof-of-concept. But a quick search through Elance or Odesk shows that there are many many potential clients who seriously expect a fully-polished product for that amount. What happens to the poor contractor when the client comes back with a huge changelist, which they're honoured to complete before getting paid? Having said that, there was a pretty successful version of this idea implemented for designers a while back.
- soupangel 14y ago
  99designs.com was the link, took me a while to remember
padseeker 14y ago
Thanks for all your comments - this post has certainly generated a bit of interest and there are some interesting ideas I'm going to have to consider. Although 11 points (at 9:30 EST) is hardly justification for building the thing out. If I get to 50 maybe I would consider it. The funniest part is to see the comments coming from each end, the Dev person saying "I can get $100 per hour, why would I do it" versus the business person who counters "I can get it built for less than $20 per hour on ODesk". I think there is an opportunity here. It's not easy to find and manage an offshore resource, and there are not that many people who can justify paying $100 an hour.
maxbrown 14y ago
I think this becomes more compelling if you offer multiple price points and try to set delivery expectations at each level. I'm not sure how much can be built at $500 while maintaining reasonable $/hr rates.
ashraful 14y ago
This is something that I've toyed with. I wanted to offer a service to build an MVP for as low as $999. Living in a third-world country where a lot for very talented developer work for a lot less is an advantage that I had. On my first try, my value proposition wasn't clear enough and I clearly needed to spend more time on the whole presentation. However, I think the idea still has merit, and its something I'll try again.
xoail 14y ago
Hate it. A decent developer based out of United States will not be able to work out the prototype for anywhere near $500. That means you open doors for off-shore devs/companies to bid and try winning the project, acting exactly like other hundreds of freelance sites. No one will up-vote proposals of the competition. I don't see how this is different from any other freelance marketplace sites out there other than putting a hard limit of $500 max. The poster still has to work hard in preparing the requirement of the prototype, answering questions and managing deliverables. Prototype also has expectations, designs, creatives, tests and what not. It's better to just hire a local person/friend. In general I feel freelance market places are hurting the economy of the country.

12 points by padseeker 14y ago

bitcoder 14y ago

I guess the concept is ultimately a 2-sided market of 'proposers' and 'builders', so the challenge would be balancing them effectively. I think its unlikely you'd ever have a problem with too many builders and not enough ideas. I think the challenge will be attracting builders (i.e. developers) who are willing to build these prototypes. As you've probably heard, developers are in high demand right now. A hacker worth his salt is probably charging at least $100/hr, so $500 for a prototype doesn't sound that attractive.

alokhar 14y ago

Cool idea, but one question. Are you talking about developers ripping off non-techies buy building the idea from scratch, or the non-techies themselves trying to build it from scratch because they don't know better alternatives?

DanBC 14y ago

A neat idea. It's a nice fit with something like Bountify (you'd use bountify for the smaller things, and your site for the larger projects). Here are a couple of questions. These aren't meant to be bashing or knocking! Sorry if they sound that way. * How will you cope if an idiot claims to be able to do something, and wins, and then makes an awful mess of things? * How does licensing work? If Ann writes some code for Bob who owns the code? (And if Ann is working at some place that claims ownership of all her code, do they own this?)

deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
padseeker 14y ago
you could I guess have a process - for custom apps the winner needs to post their code on github, and others can review the deployed app on heroku? There are plenty of holes with that as a technical person could pose as a non techie then grab the code and make off with it. But the proposer's money would be in escrow, and if the finished product works and, oh i dunno if the other hackers give it the stamp of approval.... Which that is a whole other bag of worms, if enough hackers are vindictive enough to vote a working idea down. I'm making this up as I go along. I'm willing to be swayed in a different direction.

jamesjguthrie 14y ago

I quite like this idea and could maybe see myself posting on a site like this. What I don't like is the "500 or less" part, at that point it becomes a bidding war and will inevitably be taken over by India-based devs just like every other coder for hire site.

Mz 14y ago

I am a non-techie. I think I need to learn the technical part to make my thingamawhop. I don't think it will fly otherwise. Maybe my situation is unique. Maybe not. What if it is not? What if a lot of non-techies need to learn and grow with the process of trying to breathe life into their idea? What if your idea amounts to the guy who snipped the cocoon to make things easier on the emerging butterfly, thereby tragically crippling it and permanently denying it the ability to ever fly?

padseeker 14y ago
Having someone build the prototype can help you learn how to build/enhance/operate your thingamawhop. And if you feel that strongly then don't use this non existent business idea. And you are not the typical non-technical founder. If you have any interest in learning by all means do it! This is not for you. AND EVEN SO! This could be the thing that gets you or someone else on the right track to decide what to do. You might be tempted to build the thing from scratch when you should have bought a plugin for wordpress/joomla and then learned PHP and the framework where the plugin is built. It will help you make the most pragmatic decision, which might not be build it from scratch.
- Mz 14y ago
  I don't really want to learn. I wish someone could help me zap it into existence. But that hasn't happened so far. And it is looking unlikely. But my personal situation is neither here nor there. You asked for invalidation. That is my thought: That in spite of the number of times that the value of the "idea" gets pissed on here, there is some internal process that goes on in the founders. Y-combinator is more interested in funding the tight people, not the right initial conceptualization. Building the thing is often part of the growth process for the founders, a process I struggle to articulate adequately. Perhaps you would be killing that process, throwing the baby out with the bath water, so to speak.
bradleysmith 14y ago
I am a non-techie that also believes I ought to learn the technical part to breathe life into my thingamawhop. I would still love the ability to know if someone could make it right now right now for $500. If you snip the cocoon by putting it on doitfor500.com, that's on you, right? Where there's a want, there's a product. I'd post my thingamawhop.

kennywinker 14y ago

Sounds like a subreddit, not a website. </irony>

padseeker 14y ago
yeah, I think that is a valid criticism. Actually it feels a lot closer to a Stack Exchange site, not including the way to transfer a payment from one person to another. I like how stack exchange tracks reputations and allows people to up/down vote answers to questions.
duncan_bayne 14y ago
It does sound like a subreddit, actually. I don't see what's ironic about your statement?

vlokshin 14y ago

Hmmmm... LaunchSky.com definitely comes to mind

stevejalim 14y ago

Affordable prototypes make sense, but what about the $500 level setting false expectations for the cost of the production-quality app? If you're pitching this at non-techies, you'll also have to get them over the hump of realising that a lash-up is easily an order of magnitude cheaper than a decent, real-world-robust version. "Hey, WTF are you doing quoting me £5000 for a full build of this app? I had the prototype done for $500 and it does almost as much as the real one I want."

soupangel 14y ago

My main problem with this proposal, is that WE all know that $500 buys you a rough prototype or a proof-of-concept. But a quick search through Elance or Odesk shows that there are many many potential clients who seriously expect a fully-polished product for that amount. What happens to the poor contractor when the client comes back with a huge changelist, which they're honoured to complete before getting paid? Having said that, there was a pretty successful version of this idea implemented for designers a while back.

soupangel 14y ago
99designs.com was the link, took me a while to remember

padseeker 14y ago

Thanks for all your comments - this post has certainly generated a bit of interest and there are some interesting ideas I'm going to have to consider. Although 11 points (at 9:30 EST) is hardly justification for building the thing out. If I get to 50 maybe I would consider it. The funniest part is to see the comments coming from each end, the Dev person saying "I can get $100 per hour, why would I do it" versus the business person who counters "I can get it built for less than $20 per hour on ODesk". I think there is an opportunity here. It's not easy to find and manage an offshore resource, and there are not that many people who can justify paying $100 an hour.

maxbrown 14y ago

I think this becomes more compelling if you offer multiple price points and try to set delivery expectations at each level. I'm not sure how much can be built at $500 while maintaining reasonable $/hr rates.

ashraful 14y ago

This is something that I've toyed with. I wanted to offer a service to build an MVP for as low as $999. Living in a third-world country where a lot for very talented developer work for a lot less is an advantage that I had. On my first try, my value proposition wasn't clear enough and I clearly needed to spend more time on the whole presentation. However, I think the idea still has merit, and its something I'll try again.

xoail 14y ago

Hate it. A decent developer based out of United States will not be able to work out the prototype for anywhere near $500. That means you open doors for off-shore devs/companies to bid and try winning the project, acting exactly like other hundreds of freelance sites. No one will up-vote proposals of the competition. I don't see how this is different from any other freelance marketplace sites out there other than putting a hard limit of $500 max. The poster still has to work hard in preparing the requirement of the prototype, answering questions and managing deliverables. Prototype also has expectations, designs, creatives, tests and what not. It's better to just hire a local person/friend. In general I feel freelance market places are hurting the economy of the country.