7 ms·

Dark mode with web standards

36 points by thm 3mo ago

memoriyato3 3mo ago
I use an app to switch the Windows system theme between light/dark automatically based on time of day (similar to auto blue color reduction). It's funny noticing how most Electron/WebViews/web-sites immediately switch too, and have good dark mode support, while non-web-tech native apps either only support light-mode, have a bad looking incomplete dark-mode, or require a restart to switch. So much for "native GUIs are superior, consistent and respect the user". Microsoft is still struggling with adding dark mode support to most Windows included apps.
- skydhash 3mo ago
  You can easily implement dark mode in a toolkit, you just add the new colors and switch based on the user preferences. The issue is that a lot of apps hard coded colors against the light background of the widgets. If you can find a solution for that, please share it. That’s why people like the old windows interface (windows 2k). It was fully themable.
- wongarsu 3mo ago
  Native GUIs used to be superior, consistent and respect the user. Adobe lead the way with making a GUI that's a branding experience, completely devolved from the OS theme, and in the last decade most have started following their lead. Add to that the lack of leadership and cohesion demonstrated by MS when it comes to GUIs. The original Win32 GUI was good, with lots of UX research and user testing behind it, and Borland made a great library and visual designer for it (a major selling point of Delphi). MS copied it for .NET as WinForms. That was the peak. Early to mid 2000s, depending on whether you prefer the Windows 2000 or Windows XP look. Themeable, fast, easy to design and intuitive to use, clear visual language with good user feedback. Then MS tried to make everything better with WPF. Then they tried again with WinUI, originally coupled to Windows Store apps (remember when MS still believed in that?). But whichever team was responsible for those within MS apparently didn't even have enough authority and resources to move more than a couple high-visibility OS components to it. Not to mention the mediocre features, dev experience and user experience
  - cosmic_cheese 3mo ago
    That move of Adobe’s drives me nuts even now. It might be my imagination but as I recall, the UI of Photoshop for example felt more responsive (at least on Mac) in 7/CS1/CS2 before they switched to the branded-UI mess (despite the hardware of that era being so much weaker than today’s), and visual contrast and readability was better before too.
recursivedoubts 3mo ago
i'm sure this is unpopular, but I think dark mode was an (understandable) mistake in my made up, undersourced version of tech history, what happened was that the first LCDs that came out were very dim compared to the CRTs they were replacing, which OS makers responded to by going to very bright/white UIs over the previous gray/color schemes that were used and everyone cranked their brightness to 11. Over time LCDs improved and the new white-standard/high brightness regime became untenable for people who were on their screens for long periods of time, which drove the creation of dark mode, first in coding themes and later for the entire OS. Dark mode support makes it VERY hard to do a website well because it is almost always going to look mediocre in one mode or the other and it is very easy for a gremlin to sneak in in the mode that a developer isn't using. I would love to go back to a gray-base color and use a mildly muted white for a reading background and dark for code/special content. The hyperscript website is kind of a gesture in this direction: https://hyperscript.org/ https://hyperscript.org/
- Firehawke 3mo ago
  As someone who has moderate to fairly heavy lighht sensitivity when I'm not dealing with migraines and extremely heavy light sensitvity with headaches, I'm just going to say that you're absolutely wrong here. Not every user has the same physiology. Dark mode is an accessibility option for a fair number of us.
  - loloquwowndueo 3mo ago
    Can flip this around: lots of websites now default to dark mode because reasons, and dark mode is very difficult for me to read (all blurry, also gives me a headache after a while).
    - cassianoleal 3mo ago
      I think both dark and light modes are an accessibility option.
    - acdha 3mo ago
      Yes, the correct way to approach this is to make good versions of both and respect the user’s preference. Font size is similar: you’ll never make everyone happy with a single choice so you should respect the user’s ability to know what they need.
styfle 3mo ago
I hate to be this guy, but I opened then immediately closed this website because it wasn’t in dark mode.
- loloquwowndueo 3mo ago
  Use reader mode. If you’re this militant, I’m certain your device defaults to dark mode and reader mode will honor that. Using reader mode is the same thing I have to do with the avalanche of sites now defaulting to unreadable-to-me dark mode.
  - bombcar 3mo ago
    The humor is that it’s a page about respecting user mode setting that doesn’t respect user mode setting.
    - loloquwowndueo 3mo ago
      The only acceptable humorous take about the dark mode onslaught is this : https://xkcd.com/3227/ https://xkcd.com/3227/ Everything else is just tragedy.
- wanda 3mo ago
  Books and traffic signs must be a struggle. Good luck, I guess.
phyzix5761 3mo ago
> Respecting the user’s OS setting is straightforward: use the prefers-color-scheme media query in CSS. Funny that this website does not respect the user's OS settings at all.
- andrei_says_ 3mo ago
  One should never write about an idea before implementing it?

36 points by thm 3mo ago

I use an app to switch the Windows system theme between light/dark automatically based on time of day (similar to auto blue color reduction). It's funny noticing how most Electron/WebViews/web-sites immediately switch too, and have good dark mode support, while non-web-tech native apps either only support light-mode, have a bad looking incomplete dark-mode, or require a restart to switch. So much for "native GUIs are superior, consistent and respect the user". Microsoft is still struggling with adding dark mode support to most Windows included apps.

skydhash 3mo ago
You can easily implement dark mode in a toolkit, you just add the new colors and switch based on the user preferences. The issue is that a lot of apps hard coded colors against the light background of the widgets. If you can find a solution for that, please share it. That’s why people like the old windows interface (windows 2k). It was fully themable.
wongarsu 3mo ago
Native GUIs used to be superior, consistent and respect the user. Adobe lead the way with making a GUI that's a branding experience, completely devolved from the OS theme, and in the last decade most have started following their lead. Add to that the lack of leadership and cohesion demonstrated by MS when it comes to GUIs. The original Win32 GUI was good, with lots of UX research and user testing behind it, and Borland made a great library and visual designer for it (a major selling point of Delphi). MS copied it for .NET as WinForms. That was the peak. Early to mid 2000s, depending on whether you prefer the Windows 2000 or Windows XP look. Themeable, fast, easy to design and intuitive to use, clear visual language with good user feedback. Then MS tried to make everything better with WPF. Then they tried again with WinUI, originally coupled to Windows Store apps (remember when MS still believed in that?). But whichever team was responsible for those within MS apparently didn't even have enough authority and resources to move more than a couple high-visibility OS components to it. Not to mention the mediocre features, dev experience and user experience
- cosmic_cheese 3mo ago
  That move of Adobe’s drives me nuts even now. It might be my imagination but as I recall, the UI of Photoshop for example felt more responsive (at least on Mac) in 7/CS1/CS2 before they switched to the branded-UI mess (despite the hardware of that era being so much weaker than today’s), and visual contrast and readability was better before too.

recursivedoubts 3mo ago

i'm sure this is unpopular, but I think dark mode was an (understandable) mistake in my made up, undersourced version of tech history, what happened was that the first LCDs that came out were very dim compared to the CRTs they were replacing, which OS makers responded to by going to very bright/white UIs over the previous gray/color schemes that were used and everyone cranked their brightness to 11. Over time LCDs improved and the new white-standard/high brightness regime became untenable for people who were on their screens for long periods of time, which drove the creation of dark mode, first in coding themes and later for the entire OS. Dark mode support makes it VERY hard to do a website well because it is almost always going to look mediocre in one mode or the other and it is very easy for a gremlin to sneak in in the mode that a developer isn't using. I would love to go back to a gray-base color and use a mildly muted white for a reading background and dark for code/special content. The hyperscript website is kind of a gesture in this direction: https://hyperscript.org/ https://hyperscript.org/

Firehawke 3mo ago
As someone who has moderate to fairly heavy lighht sensitivity when I'm not dealing with migraines and extremely heavy light sensitvity with headaches, I'm just going to say that you're absolutely wrong here. Not every user has the same physiology. Dark mode is an accessibility option for a fair number of us.
- loloquwowndueo 3mo ago
  Can flip this around: lots of websites now default to dark mode because reasons, and dark mode is very difficult for me to read (all blurry, also gives me a headache after a while).
  - cassianoleal 3mo ago
    I think both dark and light modes are an accessibility option.
  - acdha 3mo ago
    Yes, the correct way to approach this is to make good versions of both and respect the user’s preference. Font size is similar: you’ll never make everyone happy with a single choice so you should respect the user’s ability to know what they need.

styfle 3mo ago

I hate to be this guy, but I opened then immediately closed this website because it wasn’t in dark mode.

loloquwowndueo 3mo ago
Use reader mode. If you’re this militant, I’m certain your device defaults to dark mode and reader mode will honor that. Using reader mode is the same thing I have to do with the avalanche of sites now defaulting to unreadable-to-me dark mode.
- bombcar 3mo ago
  The humor is that it’s a page about respecting user mode setting that doesn’t respect user mode setting.
  - loloquwowndueo 3mo ago
    The only acceptable humorous take about the dark mode onslaught is this : https://xkcd.com/3227/ https://xkcd.com/3227/ Everything else is just tragedy.
wanda 3mo ago
Books and traffic signs must be a struggle. Good luck, I guess.

phyzix5761 3mo ago

> Respecting the user’s OS setting is straightforward: use the prefers-color-scheme media query in CSS. Funny that this website does not respect the user's OS settings at all.

andrei_says_ 3mo ago
One should never write about an idea before implementing it?