5 ms·

- wrong comparison - ever heard the word called threshold? there is always a threshold for everything in this universe - when you say i dont need to manually

- wrong comparison - ever heard the word called threshold? there is always a threshold for everything in this universe - when you say i dont need to manually do math anymore because i use a calculator, the threshold for offloading your thinking is very very low - when you say i dont need assembly language anymore because i learnt python, once again the threshold for offloading your thinking to an external source is very very slow because you are still thinking how that program works in python - but now you are saying here is a document that describes how the system works and let the agent generate the code - you are not thinking at all here are you? - even if you were to claim that writing requirement documents is a form of thought, you are still offloading the parts of your brain that were capable of translating requirement documents to code - i can still add and subtract 6 digit numbers effortlessly and rapidly without a calculator because i stopped using one long time back - can you say the same about the current generation of engineers 10 yrs from now?

jdjdkrjdjjdj 4mo ago
It was a yes or no question. You didn't answer it.
- jdjdkrjdjjdj 4mo ago
  Look my point here is not to troll. My point here is to make you think. I learnt assembly and I never want to do it again, I learnt to code in many languages (compiled and interpreted) and you know what, there has not been an issue i found that required me to dig into the assembly of a compiled language (there are edge cases if there was a compiler bug, but I have not seen them myself). Now the change from assembly to compiled languages was a step change. The same is true now. What was once hard is now easy. And again we must adapt. For you I think your identity has been tied up in being good at what you do ... I was the same... The issue is now, that we need to find something harder to fill our minds... Finally, I want to remind you that at one point in our history a computer was a job. I think programmer/software engineer is going the same way. In 10 years I hope we are not doing the same mundane crap as what we were .. There are so many other interesting things we could be filling our brains with!!!
  - wonnage 4mo ago
    You created a throwaway to “not troll” and post the same three tired tropes every tokenmaxxing vibe coder trots out
    - simianwords 4mo ago
      They are right though. The entire history of human civilisation involves a thing called “specialisation”. The primary reason we were able to prosper as humans is because we all dont have to know how to procure our food. Did humanity lose the skills for making food as people specialised? No. same thing with memory management - as Java became popular, should the concern have been towards losing skills on memory management? That’s stupid. LLMs don’t allow you (yet) to not understand the code completely. But it allows you to understand less and less directionality. We are getting there. I don’t read all code anymore, just high level design. This kind of performative concern over skill atrophy is annoying.
      - wonnage 4mo ago
        It's telling that the proponents of vibe coding are the same people who think memory management is no longer a concern with Java
      - vivzkestrel 4mo ago
        someone has taken the words straight out of my mind right today on HN https://rruxandra.github.io/regression-to-the-mean.html https://rruxandra.github.io/regression-to-the-mean.html
  - vivzkestrel 4mo ago
    - to answer your question, i did not start with assembly - i started in 2010s with c++ directly but I did go back and learn how to do 8086 opcodes and while i am not good at it, i am still learning it slowly - mundane stuff? algorithms, business logic, critical thinking, architectural understanding is being outsourced to LLMs at an unprecedented rate and there is nothing mundane about any of this - you can sit and talk about how 10 yrs down the line everyone has to sit and write english paragraphs of how they want their website to look like and nobody needs to write code but I am going to have to back out of this one - Writing code from requirements is an art as much as a critical skill and bringing an LLM to do so doesnt bode well for the entire industry - Remember that concept of smart terminals and dumb terminals that used to be discussed about long time back. How dumb terminals merely offloaded everything to the server while they did nothing. - Frontier labs are turning humans into dumb terminals while they wield data, power and critical thinking from the masses at scale - This kinda power and leverage should not be handed out especially to frontier labs controlled by a few people - Even if you are one of those few insightful people out there who will sit and actually discuss what the function should do and then review the generated code, vast majority of programmers are literally copy pasting vibe coding stuff day in and day out now - This ll create a special type of deficiency a few years down the line in every major corporation out there while concentrating even more power into the hands of a few frontier labs - Remember that meme image of an ape slowly evolving into a human and the in the last step, it says "oops we need to turn back one step". This honestly is that one step. I think the software industry has taken a messy step here

jdjdkrjdjjdj 4mo ago

It was a yes or no question. You didn't answer it.

jdjdkrjdjjdj 4mo ago
Look my point here is not to troll. My point here is to make you think. I learnt assembly and I never want to do it again, I learnt to code in many languages (compiled and interpreted) and you know what, there has not been an issue i found that required me to dig into the assembly of a compiled language (there are edge cases if there was a compiler bug, but I have not seen them myself). Now the change from assembly to compiled languages was a step change. The same is true now. What was once hard is now easy. And again we must adapt. For you I think your identity has been tied up in being good at what you do ... I was the same... The issue is now, that we need to find something harder to fill our minds... Finally, I want to remind you that at one point in our history a computer was a job. I think programmer/software engineer is going the same way. In 10 years I hope we are not doing the same mundane crap as what we were .. There are so many other interesting things we could be filling our brains with!!!
- wonnage 4mo ago
  You created a throwaway to “not troll” and post the same three tired tropes every tokenmaxxing vibe coder trots out
  - simianwords 4mo ago
    They are right though. The entire history of human civilisation involves a thing called “specialisation”. The primary reason we were able to prosper as humans is because we all dont have to know how to procure our food. Did humanity lose the skills for making food as people specialised? No. same thing with memory management - as Java became popular, should the concern have been towards losing skills on memory management? That’s stupid. LLMs don’t allow you (yet) to not understand the code completely. But it allows you to understand less and less directionality. We are getting there. I don’t read all code anymore, just high level design. This kind of performative concern over skill atrophy is annoying.
    - wonnage 4mo ago
      It's telling that the proponents of vibe coding are the same people who think memory management is no longer a concern with Java
    - vivzkestrel 4mo ago
      someone has taken the words straight out of my mind right today on HN https://rruxandra.github.io/regression-to-the-mean.html https://rruxandra.github.io/regression-to-the-mean.html
- vivzkestrel 4mo ago
  - to answer your question, i did not start with assembly - i started in 2010s with c++ directly but I did go back and learn how to do 8086 opcodes and while i am not good at it, i am still learning it slowly - mundane stuff? algorithms, business logic, critical thinking, architectural understanding is being outsourced to LLMs at an unprecedented rate and there is nothing mundane about any of this - you can sit and talk about how 10 yrs down the line everyone has to sit and write english paragraphs of how they want their website to look like and nobody needs to write code but I am going to have to back out of this one - Writing code from requirements is an art as much as a critical skill and bringing an LLM to do so doesnt bode well for the entire industry - Remember that concept of smart terminals and dumb terminals that used to be discussed about long time back. How dumb terminals merely offloaded everything to the server while they did nothing. - Frontier labs are turning humans into dumb terminals while they wield data, power and critical thinking from the masses at scale - This kinda power and leverage should not be handed out especially to frontier labs controlled by a few people - Even if you are one of those few insightful people out there who will sit and actually discuss what the function should do and then review the generated code, vast majority of programmers are literally copy pasting vibe coding stuff day in and day out now - This ll create a special type of deficiency a few years down the line in every major corporation out there while concentrating even more power into the hands of a few frontier labs - Remember that meme image of an ape slowly evolving into a human and the in the last step, it says "oops we need to turn back one step". This honestly is that one step. I think the software industry has taken a messy step here