> This is a prime example of why programmers are not seriously considered engineers. Yup, most don't have the spine to stand up for their moral as they grew up

> This is a prime example of why programmers are not seriously considered engineers. Yup, most don't have the spine to stand up for their moral as they grew up creating low-stake toys. On top of that we have been unable to establish the rigour (proofs, automated-verification, proper design thinking beyond the next 2 quarters) and doing so is really hard and often doesn't have drawbacks comparable to losing speed against teams that just keep throwing stuff at the wall.