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So Odin is a proprietary language used by a startup company that makes graphical effect tools, one of which is popular with vfx artists? I can see why Wikipedia

So Odin is a proprietary language used by a startup company that makes graphical effect tools, one of which is popular with vfx artists? I can see why Wikipedia's washing its hands of it. > If building a world-class (almost revolutionary) product with your own programming language doesn't count as "making your thing notable" Notability is not transitive. If you make a notable thing using a non-notable thing, it doesn't make the non-notable thing notable unless somehow the notable thing sparks a wave of public interest and thus reporting on the non-notable thing. Also EmberGen doesn't seem terribly notable either. How many SIGGRAPH papers go in-depth into EmberGen? As far as I can tell: zero. A Google Scholar search shows a single paper where EmberGen is not just a passing mention, and it's in a journal with low reach: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=%22embergen%22&btnG= https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=%22e... -- also somewhat damning in its conclusion that EmberGen is faster than Blender, but if you need "precise artistic control", keep using Blender. Has EmberGen won the Academy Scientific and Technical award, like, say, Houdini, Renderman, After Effects or Dragonframe? No it hasn't. Wikipedia doesn't even have an article on Houdini's HScript.

strenholme 4mo ago
>Odin is a proprietary language What do you mean by “proprietary language”? To me “proprietary” means closed source, where one can only download binaries, not source code. “proprietary” can also have source code available, but with a license which is not open-source. Odin, however, is an open-source language with an open-source license: https://github.com/odin-lang/Odin/blob/master/LICENSE https://github.com/odin-lang/Odin/blob/master/LICENSE
- amiga386 4mo ago
  I knew nothing about this language, despite being a programmer, until today. My takeaway from TFA was this language's claim to relevance is the fact that it's used to produce a product, and the CEO of the company producing the product was trying to vouch for it. Having looked more, this is not right. It seems more like one person who wanted to make video games developed a programming language instead, and now makes their living developing this programming language. And has built up some community of users, and one of those users is a small company making VFX software which has some usage but it's not making headlines anywhere. But this is so significant to the language author that they have a huge section of the front page of their own language's website mentioning this commercial software, even though they're... not?... affiliated with the company? Bigging up the reflected glory. And in the years of this programming language existing, and supposedly being being general purpose... there have been zero papers about it in the ACM Transactions on Programming Languages and Systems or The Computer Journal, nor computer interest publications like Ars Technica or Linux Journal, and it hasn't been covered at SIGGRAPH or the Game Developers Conference. Why not? If the language wants a Wikipedia page, the way forward is to get notable coverage from reliable sources. You and your friends who hang out on Discord and blog or vlog/livestream aren't reliable sources, even if you have a million friends. There aren't specialised notability guidelines for programming languages, but there are for software, which a programming language definitely is. Even if no academics or professional journalists have written about it, there are other ways to establish its notability: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(software) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(software... - have schools and universities used it to teach programming? There are hundreds, possibly thousands of languages that clear that bar - have books or manuals been written about it? From what I can see, there is exactly one book about it This language could clear the notability bar, but it just currently doesn't. The language's author positing a conspiracy of Wikipedia moderators keeping it out is unhelpful. I wouldn't include it in Wikipedia with its current sources, and I've literally never heard of it until today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Odin_(programming_language) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Odin_(programming_langua...
  - strenholme 4mo ago
    I agree with you about the notability aspects, but using the word “proprietary” has a very specific meaning and Odin may be many things, but it’s not “proprietary”—it’s open source. When I saw you use the word “proprietary”, I was initially under the impression that Odin’s source code wasn’t even available, and one could only download .exe files and binary packages of Odin.
  - deleted 4mo ago
    [deleted]
bobbytheblkbear 4mo ago
[flagged]
- cess11 4mo ago
  In the Wikipedia sense these two are much more notable than the Odin language, because universities and academic publications have given them publicised attention.

strenholme 4mo ago

>Odin is a proprietary language What do you mean by “proprietary language”? To me “proprietary” means closed source, where one can only download binaries, not source code. “proprietary” can also have source code available, but with a license which is not open-source. Odin, however, is an open-source language with an open-source license: https://github.com/odin-lang/Odin/blob/master/LICENSE https://github.com/odin-lang/Odin/blob/master/LICENSE

amiga386 4mo ago
I knew nothing about this language, despite being a programmer, until today. My takeaway from TFA was this language's claim to relevance is the fact that it's used to produce a product, and the CEO of the company producing the product was trying to vouch for it. Having looked more, this is not right. It seems more like one person who wanted to make video games developed a programming language instead, and now makes their living developing this programming language. And has built up some community of users, and one of those users is a small company making VFX software which has some usage but it's not making headlines anywhere. But this is so significant to the language author that they have a huge section of the front page of their own language's website mentioning this commercial software, even though they're... not?... affiliated with the company? Bigging up the reflected glory. And in the years of this programming language existing, and supposedly being being general purpose... there have been zero papers about it in the ACM Transactions on Programming Languages and Systems or The Computer Journal, nor computer interest publications like Ars Technica or Linux Journal, and it hasn't been covered at SIGGRAPH or the Game Developers Conference. Why not? If the language wants a Wikipedia page, the way forward is to get notable coverage from reliable sources. You and your friends who hang out on Discord and blog or vlog/livestream aren't reliable sources, even if you have a million friends. There aren't specialised notability guidelines for programming languages, but there are for software, which a programming language definitely is. Even if no academics or professional journalists have written about it, there are other ways to establish its notability: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(software) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(software... - have schools and universities used it to teach programming? There are hundreds, possibly thousands of languages that clear that bar - have books or manuals been written about it? From what I can see, there is exactly one book about it This language could clear the notability bar, but it just currently doesn't. The language's author positing a conspiracy of Wikipedia moderators keeping it out is unhelpful. I wouldn't include it in Wikipedia with its current sources, and I've literally never heard of it until today. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Odin_(programming_language) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Odin_(programming_langua...
- strenholme 4mo ago
  I agree with you about the notability aspects, but using the word “proprietary” has a very specific meaning and Odin may be many things, but it’s not “proprietary”—it’s open source. When I saw you use the word “proprietary”, I was initially under the impression that Odin’s source code wasn’t even available, and one could only download .exe files and binary packages of Odin.
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]

bobbytheblkbear 4mo ago

[flagged]

cess11 4mo ago
In the Wikipedia sense these two are much more notable than the Odin language, because universities and academic publications have given them publicised attention.