5 ms·

I am a terminally-online person, and I do program. I am not interested in neolanguages. This article is literally the first time I've heard of Odin (the langua

I am a terminally-online person, and I do program. I am not interested in neolanguages. This article is literally the first time I've heard of Odin (the language), and I only clicked it because I thought it was about the Norse god, not some invented language. There are various bounds for notability in Wikipedia, and no matter how much of a fan of the new thing you are, you are encouraged to root around for sources. Have any academic journals (which themselves are notable) published papers _about_ the language, directly examining its merits or reporting its usage, as opposed to mentioning it in passing? Has a similar examination appeared in any mainstream generalist publications, that are also reliable sources? (i.e. they don't just publish any old crap for payola) If the world doesn't care about your novel language enough to include it in even one reliable, notable source, then Wikipedia doesn't care either. "Wikipedia is not for stuff you and your friends made up in school one day". Or at work, or in a hackerspace, or on programming language forums, ... If you want to be in Wikipedia, don't put your effort into fighting AfD, first put your effort into making your thing actually popular and notable. > In August 2006, a Wikipedia article on the iPhone was deleted after discussion. At that point, little was known about the product outside Apple Inc. and it could not have had a Wikipedia article. Following the product's launch and mass-media coverage in January 2007, the article was recreated and has been improved ever since.

selectnull 4mo ago
Well, you're one of today's lucky 10000. https://xkcd.com/1053/ https://xkcd.com/1053/
notarobot123 4mo ago
There is a fair question here (though presented with questionable integrity) about what notability means in programming languages. Especially for more recent and perhaps not widely used programming languages. I have a particular interest in programming language design and, for what it's worth, I have heard of Odin. For someone like me, understanding different design decisions for languages that depart from mainstream languages is valuable. It isn't what academic journals are interested in and there are no notable publications for hobbyists or language design experts (that I know of). Notability *is* worth questioning for a field like this since there isn't a clear signal outside of blog posts and user community discussion. There's no clear place where general discussions around program languages is happening to a reasonable level of depth and quality. On that note - @dang I would love it if https://news.ycombinator.com/showlang https://news.ycombinator.com/showlang continued to update. It was a cool resource for finding discussion on new programming language designs here on HN.
myko 4mo ago
Odin isn't exactly obscure to be fair
embedding-shape 4mo ago
> I am a terminally-online person, and I do program. I am not interested in neolanguages. I wouldn't say I'm terminally-online, but I do program, passing interest in neolanguages. I've heard about Odin, because I also do 3D VFX and simulations, particularly fire and fluid simulations, and JangaFX kind of infamously hit the 3D simulation scene with EmberGen which kind of did what many thought was short of impossible, making fire/smoke simulations a hell of a lot better and faster by running it all on the GPU. I upgraded to a $10K GPU more or less so I could do bigger scenes faster in EmberGen. Only once I was inside the JangaFX/EmberGen community did I find out about Odin, which is the base of their entire product line, something like 4-5 products by now. Generally I don't care much about Algol/C-like languages like Odin and the rest, but because it's used in EmberGen and lots (all?) of JangaFX products, I've ended up using it a lot for better or worse. > If you want to be in Wikipedia, don't put your effort into fighting AfD, first put your effort into making your thing actually popular and notable. If building a world-class (almost revolutionary) product with your own programming language doesn't count as "making your thing notable", maybe it's time to revisit what notable means? JangaFX/EmberGen been covered A LOT in its niche, but because it's a niche, somehow that doesn't seem to count for Wikipedia as "notable".
- cygx 4mo ago
  As I understand it, the Wikipedia model is that anyone may contribute, but the information has to be collected from sources that conform to certain formal criteria. There are no such sources for Odin.
- andrepd 4mo ago
  > If building a world-class (almost revolutionary) product with your own programming language doesn't count as "making your thing notable", maybe it's time to revisit what notable means? JangaFX/EmberGen been covered A LOT in its niche, but because it's a niche, somehow that doesn't seem to count for Wikipedia as "notable". Please RTFA and address the rebukes to this very point that are presented herein... -.- "Usage of Odin in a world-class product" is enough to count as notable, but how to establish this fact is the problem; a tweet by the CEO is not enough to establish this, secondary reporting by a reliable and archived source would.
pmarreck 4mo ago
I've heard of Odin for years now. Maybe because I like knowing about new/nascent languages. For example, have you heard of roc-lang? You've likely heard of Zig. It's possible I'm in a bubble, but it would be a fairly notable bubble. Things that are perhaps niche but growing should be an argument for keeping them. Isn't Wikipedia a compendium of facts? Odin's existence is one of those facts. /shrug
- Ardren 4mo ago
  > Isn't Wikipedia a compendium of facts? Odin's existence is one of those facts. /shrug Nope. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_no...
- cygx 4mo ago
  Isn't Wikipedia a compendium of facts? It is an encyclopedia of topics that meet its standards of notability (ie there exists "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject"[1]). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability
- bobbytheblkbear 4mo ago
  Wikipedia only has facts on it because they're difficult to argue about. Trust me, they would delete facts if they could. It's not a site for smart people.
- pessimizer 4mo ago
  > Isn't Wikipedia a compendium of facts? Odin's existence is one of those facts. Odin is pretty notable imo, but what I had for lunch yesterday is a fact and it does not belong in Wikipedia. A house is a shelter for people, thus my house is a shelter for people; you are a person, but that doesn't that you belong in my house.
- RetroTechie 4mo ago
  > I've heard of Odin for years now. So have I. But what's notable for many HN users, may be muuuuch less notable for average dude on the street. Wikipedia's policies on this seem pretty clear & reasonable to me. And not too high a bar to clear, imho. So perhaps a better question is why Odin hasn't - so far. Or just agree that maybe it's not as notable (yet!) as some may think.

selectnull 4mo ago

Well, you're one of today's lucky 10000. https://xkcd.com/1053/ https://xkcd.com/1053/

notarobot123 4mo ago

There is a fair question here (though presented with questionable integrity) about what notability means in programming languages. Especially for more recent and perhaps not widely used programming languages. I have a particular interest in programming language design and, for what it's worth, I have heard of Odin. For someone like me, understanding different design decisions for languages that depart from mainstream languages is valuable. It isn't what academic journals are interested in and there are no notable publications for hobbyists or language design experts (that I know of). Notability *is* worth questioning for a field like this since there isn't a clear signal outside of blog posts and user community discussion. There's no clear place where general discussions around program languages is happening to a reasonable level of depth and quality. On that note - @dang I would love it if https://news.ycombinator.com/showlang https://news.ycombinator.com/showlang continued to update. It was a cool resource for finding discussion on new programming language designs here on HN.

myko 4mo ago

Odin isn't exactly obscure to be fair

embedding-shape 4mo ago

> I am a terminally-online person, and I do program. I am not interested in neolanguages. I wouldn't say I'm terminally-online, but I do program, passing interest in neolanguages. I've heard about Odin, because I also do 3D VFX and simulations, particularly fire and fluid simulations, and JangaFX kind of infamously hit the 3D simulation scene with EmberGen which kind of did what many thought was short of impossible, making fire/smoke simulations a hell of a lot better and faster by running it all on the GPU. I upgraded to a $10K GPU more or less so I could do bigger scenes faster in EmberGen. Only once I was inside the JangaFX/EmberGen community did I find out about Odin, which is the base of their entire product line, something like 4-5 products by now. Generally I don't care much about Algol/C-like languages like Odin and the rest, but because it's used in EmberGen and lots (all?) of JangaFX products, I've ended up using it a lot for better or worse. > If you want to be in Wikipedia, don't put your effort into fighting AfD, first put your effort into making your thing actually popular and notable. If building a world-class (almost revolutionary) product with your own programming language doesn't count as "making your thing notable", maybe it's time to revisit what notable means? JangaFX/EmberGen been covered A LOT in its niche, but because it's a niche, somehow that doesn't seem to count for Wikipedia as "notable".

cygx 4mo ago
As I understand it, the Wikipedia model is that anyone may contribute, but the information has to be collected from sources that conform to certain formal criteria. There are no such sources for Odin.
andrepd 4mo ago
> If building a world-class (almost revolutionary) product with your own programming language doesn't count as "making your thing notable", maybe it's time to revisit what notable means? JangaFX/EmberGen been covered A LOT in its niche, but because it's a niche, somehow that doesn't seem to count for Wikipedia as "notable". Please RTFA and address the rebukes to this very point that are presented herein... -.- "Usage of Odin in a world-class product" is enough to count as notable, but how to establish this fact is the problem; a tweet by the CEO is not enough to establish this, secondary reporting by a reliable and archived source would.

pmarreck 4mo ago

I've heard of Odin for years now. Maybe because I like knowing about new/nascent languages. For example, have you heard of roc-lang? You've likely heard of Zig. It's possible I'm in a bubble, but it would be a fairly notable bubble. Things that are perhaps niche but growing should be an argument for keeping them. Isn't Wikipedia a compendium of facts? Odin's existence is one of those facts. /shrug

Ardren 4mo ago
> Isn't Wikipedia a compendium of facts? Odin's existence is one of those facts. /shrug Nope. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_no...
cygx 4mo ago
Isn't Wikipedia a compendium of facts? It is an encyclopedia of topics that meet its standards of notability (ie there exists "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject"[1]). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability
bobbytheblkbear 4mo ago
Wikipedia only has facts on it because they're difficult to argue about. Trust me, they would delete facts if they could. It's not a site for smart people.
pessimizer 4mo ago
> Isn't Wikipedia a compendium of facts? Odin's existence is one of those facts. Odin is pretty notable imo, but what I had for lunch yesterday is a fact and it does not belong in Wikipedia. A house is a shelter for people, thus my house is a shelter for people; you are a person, but that doesn't that you belong in my house.
RetroTechie 4mo ago
> I've heard of Odin for years now. So have I. But what's notable for many HN users, may be muuuuch less notable for average dude on the street. Wikipedia's policies on this seem pretty clear & reasonable to me. And not too high a bar to clear, imho. So perhaps a better question is why Odin hasn't - so far. Or just agree that maybe it's not as notable (yet!) as some may think.