6 ms·

Also, how are we supposed to know that JangaFX is a real company, and its CEO a real person? Creating fake companies and persona is not particularly high effor

by stymaar 3mo ago

Also, how are we supposed to know that JangaFX is a real company, and its CEO a real person? Creating fake companies and persona is not particularly high effort today, if that's all it takes for a pet project to be featured on Wikipedia, it's going to end up full of crap real quick.

embedding-shape 3mo ago
How do you YCombinator is a real company unless you met pg? Look at it being well known with real useable products, might be something to try to look for...
- DiogenesKynikos 3mo ago
  Because plenty of secondary sources have covered it. Wikipedia's philosophy is that it summarizes reliable secondary sources. You're asking for Wikipedia to change its fundamental philosophy so that editors go out and gather primary evidence themselves, debate it, and then deduce what's true by themselves. That would work if Wikipedia were edited by a select group of highly qualified people you can trust, but it's not. It's edited by literally anyone who signs up. So the rules are strict: find a secondary source, or else don't include the info.
  - stymaar 3mo ago
    I'm 95% sure the account you're replying to is a karma-farming bot (15k karma in just 8 month is a lot), which makes its comment spectacularly ironic.
    - embedding-shape 3mo ago
      Lol, thanks if nothing else, I suppose, I do have quite some freetime at my hands. Mind pointing out comments by me seems non-humanly written? 95% is high confidence so assuming you have some examples at hand here.
    - bryanrasmussen 3mo ago
      I'm just wondering - what is the benefit of a karma-farming bot? I mean I get the benefits of bots on bluesky and twitter and Instagram etc. because you can turn high engagement into money!! I figured bots here were because people maybe were trying out AI tools, scripts, or because keeping their business visible to people who might be interested. But what benefit can you derive from the Karma.I have pretty good Karma and it hasn't done anything for me that I'm aware of?
      - embedding-shape 3mo ago
        You can influence the general sentiment in the thread, have the last word everywhere when terms/companies and so on are mentioned. Manipulation goes way beyond just "score goes up", sometimes introducing a lot of fear, uncertainty and doubt is enough to derail entire submissions.
        bryanrasmussen 3mo ago
        OK, but does the Karma help those goals?
        embedding-shape 3mo ago
        Yes, apparently some people (like stymaar) do look at user's profile and look at those numbers to decide how they feel about things. Sometimes high karma can be a sign of trust or a established profile, sometimes (like in this case coupled with relatively recent registration date) it comes of as a signal of suspicion.
    - wavemode 3mo ago
      After reading through several pages of their comments, I'm roughly 100% certain that the user you're referring to is not a bot and is not karma farming. They just post a lot.
      - embedding-shape 3mo ago
        Thanks for independently confirming I actually seem human, I had my own doubts about it at times too so helps a lot :)
  - close04 3mo ago
    Wikipedia’s strategy is to offload the risk of wrong information to sources which can absorb the hit rather than have it reflected back. It’s “safer” for Wikipedia even to knowingly publish inaccuracies or misinformation from a reputable source than the truth from an unknown source. A lie from a reputable source is unavoidable, a lie from an unknown source is unforgivable.
    - SanjayMehta 3mo ago
      [flagged]
      - DiogenesKynikos 3mo ago
        I tried looking for reliable secondary sources that discuss the Odin programming language. I couldn't find any. That's not Wikipedia's fault. It is a bit weird that people are insisting that Odin is such a big deal that it must have a Wikipedia page, but apparently no tech website of note has ever mentioned it.
        fmajid 3mo ago
        It's funny. Just last week I was trying to figure out what this ODIN thing is, and naturally searched Wikipedia, and found nothing. I then did a web search, and found nothing particularly illuminating, and gave up trying to figure out what it is and just added a filtering rule to filter out any further mention of Odin in my RSS feed reader.
        dismalaf 3mo ago
        > tech website of note Does anyone care about "tech websites"? Like what, one of those weird websites that thinks they're a newspaper whose revenue collapsed 10 years ago so they only publish clickbait no one reads? Does anyone actually get tech news, especially about programming languages, from a space that's not X, HN, YouTube, GitHub, Codeberg or a user group?
        DiogenesKynikos 3mo ago
deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]
dismalaf 3mo ago
They do have products you can buy, download and use... And plenty of people on YouTube have made videos reviewing or showing how to use their products.
torginus 3mo ago
> Also, how are we supposed to know that JangaFX is a real company, and its CEO a real person? From the page: https://jangafx.com/legal/end-user-license-agreement https://jangafx.com/legal/end-user-license-agreement JangaFX, LLC, a North Carolina Limited Liability Company located at PO BOX 27...
- stymaar 3mo ago
  What does that prove exactly?

by stymaar 3mo ago

embedding-shape 3mo ago

How do you YCombinator is a real company unless you met pg? Look at it being well known with real useable products, might be something to try to look for...

DiogenesKynikos 3mo ago
Because plenty of secondary sources have covered it. Wikipedia's philosophy is that it summarizes reliable secondary sources. You're asking for Wikipedia to change its fundamental philosophy so that editors go out and gather primary evidence themselves, debate it, and then deduce what's true by themselves. That would work if Wikipedia were edited by a select group of highly qualified people you can trust, but it's not. It's edited by literally anyone who signs up. So the rules are strict: find a secondary source, or else don't include the info.
- stymaar 3mo ago
  I'm 95% sure the account you're replying to is a karma-farming bot (15k karma in just 8 month is a lot), which makes its comment spectacularly ironic.
  - embedding-shape 3mo ago
    Lol, thanks if nothing else, I suppose, I do have quite some freetime at my hands. Mind pointing out comments by me seems non-humanly written? 95% is high confidence so assuming you have some examples at hand here.
  - bryanrasmussen 3mo ago
    I'm just wondering - what is the benefit of a karma-farming bot? I mean I get the benefits of bots on bluesky and twitter and Instagram etc. because you can turn high engagement into money!! I figured bots here were because people maybe were trying out AI tools, scripts, or because keeping their business visible to people who might be interested. But what benefit can you derive from the Karma.I have pretty good Karma and it hasn't done anything for me that I'm aware of?
    - embedding-shape 3mo ago
      You can influence the general sentiment in the thread, have the last word everywhere when terms/companies and so on are mentioned. Manipulation goes way beyond just "score goes up", sometimes introducing a lot of fear, uncertainty and doubt is enough to derail entire submissions.
      - bryanrasmussen 3mo ago
        OK, but does the Karma help those goals?
        embedding-shape 3mo ago
        Yes, apparently some people (like stymaar) do look at user's profile and look at those numbers to decide how they feel about things. Sometimes high karma can be a sign of trust or a established profile, sometimes (like in this case coupled with relatively recent registration date) it comes of as a signal of suspicion.
  - wavemode 3mo ago
    After reading through several pages of their comments, I'm roughly 100% certain that the user you're referring to is not a bot and is not karma farming. They just post a lot.
    - embedding-shape 3mo ago
      Thanks for independently confirming I actually seem human, I had my own doubts about it at times too so helps a lot :)
- close04 3mo ago
  Wikipedia’s strategy is to offload the risk of wrong information to sources which can absorb the hit rather than have it reflected back. It’s “safer” for Wikipedia even to knowingly publish inaccuracies or misinformation from a reputable source than the truth from an unknown source. A lie from a reputable source is unavoidable, a lie from an unknown source is unforgivable.
  - SanjayMehta 3mo ago
    [flagged]
    - DiogenesKynikos 3mo ago
      I tried looking for reliable secondary sources that discuss the Odin programming language. I couldn't find any. That's not Wikipedia's fault. It is a bit weird that people are insisting that Odin is such a big deal that it must have a Wikipedia page, but apparently no tech website of note has ever mentioned it.
      - fmajid 3mo ago
        It's funny. Just last week I was trying to figure out what this ODIN thing is, and naturally searched Wikipedia, and found nothing. I then did a web search, and found nothing particularly illuminating, and gave up trying to figure out what it is and just added a filtering rule to filter out any further mention of Odin in my RSS feed reader.
      - dismalaf 3mo ago
        > tech website of note Does anyone care about "tech websites"? Like what, one of those weird websites that thinks they're a newspaper whose revenue collapsed 10 years ago so they only publish clickbait no one reads? Does anyone actually get tech news, especially about programming languages, from a space that's not X, HN, YouTube, GitHub, Codeberg or a user group?
        DiogenesKynikos 3mo ago

deleted 3mo ago

[deleted]

dismalaf 3mo ago

They do have products you can buy, download and use... And plenty of people on YouTube have made videos reviewing or showing how to use their products.

torginus 3mo ago

> Also, how are we supposed to know that JangaFX is a real company, and its CEO a real person? From the page: https://jangafx.com/legal/end-user-license-agreement https://jangafx.com/legal/end-user-license-agreement JangaFX, LLC, a North Carolina Limited Liability Company located at PO BOX 27...

stymaar 3mo ago
What does that prove exactly?