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I would hesitate to say the IKEA is worse. Inside the IKEA is a reputable Sensirion all in one sensor module. It's much cheaper and smaller because the CO2 sens

by Liftyee 3mo ago

I would hesitate to say the IKEA is worse. Inside the IKEA is a reputable Sensirion all in one sensor module. It's much cheaper and smaller because the CO2 sensor in it is using different (newer) technology that only released a few years ago from Sensirion. (Upd: the IKEA does have lower accuracy, with ±100 ppm instead of ±30 ppm. From the SEN63C datasheet)

deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]
microtonal 3mo ago
No, it is crap. Yes, it is Sensirion, but it uses a thermal conductivity sensor, which is a very indirect method of measuring CO2. One part of the sensor emits heat and the other senses it and the idea is that heat transfer changes with different CO2 concentrations. However, a lot of other factors influence this as well, such as ambient temperature/humidity (which is why the sensor incorporates measurements from an SHT sensor), but also gas mixture, etc. You only get good readings at lab conditions. Even below 1000 ppm, I would often see readings that are 300 ppm from more expensive, known-good CO2 meters. If you want a CO2 meter on the cheap, either wire up an optical NDIR sensor like the SenseAir S88 (22 Euro) up to an esp32, which is possibly the best sensor you can get for the money (slightly cheaper version of the sensor that the AraNet4 uses). Or if you want something standalone with a display, get the SwitchBot Meter Pro CO2 for ~50 Euro, which uses a photoacoustic NDIR, but is still miles better than the sensor in the ALPSTUGA. Can also be hooked up with HA through an ESPHome BLE proxy or with the SwitchBot Hub. You can find a comparison of the IKEA sensor with other affordable sensors here: https://danieldk.eu/hardware/smart-home/ikea-alpstuga https://danieldk.eu/hardware/smart-home/ikea-alpstuga (Upd: the IKEA does have lower accuracy, with ±100 ppm instead of ±30 ppm. From the SEN63C datasheet) You forget to mention that it is ±100ppm plus ±10% of the ambient ppm, which makes a big difference. At 1000ppm it's ±(100ppm + 0.10*1000) = 200ppm and that's only in an environment with 25C, 50% RH, and 1013 mbar. So, that does not tell you much, given that thermal conductivity is very sensitive to environmental factors.
- nok22kon 3mo ago
  if you just want to know if CO2 is too much, 300ppm precision is fine. I dont need to know the exact level, just give me a green/yellow/red LED and make it cheap so I can have a sensor in every room
  - microtonal 3mo ago
    No, it's not. You generally want to ventilate an office when you reach 1000ppm, but then the IKEA will often warn you already at 700ppm. 700ppm is fine.
    - nok22kon 3mo ago
      you assume that the error will always be in one direction and if sometimes you ventilate a bit sooner than required, at 700, what? businesses will not put $200 meters in every room
      - spockz 3mo ago
        Presumably there is still the need to ventilate. So the concentration can also be measured more centrally. That is how the mechanical ventilation unit in my house works. For both humidity and CO2.
      - microtonal 3mo ago
        businesses will not put $200 meters in every room There are good $50 Euro meters. Besides that, I am not sure if that is true, at my wife's workplace, they put high-end CO2 meters in every larger room where multiple people meet. Admittedly, this was during COVID, so a lot of organizations were using CO2 levels as a proxy for finding whether a room was properly ventilated.
      - doobiedowner 3mo ago
        You put one CO2 sensor in the return air duct and tie it to outside air control.
      - 3mo ago
yoshuaw 3mo ago
Worse specs? Sure. Worse value? I don't think so. Worse accuracy? Perhaps not either. A price of 30 EUR makes this sensor really easy to pick up. For the same price as one Aranet (~180 EUR) the typical household can place a sensor in every room of the house. Which provides far more accurate readings for the whole house than just one high-end sensor in one room.
- freefaler 3mo ago
  I have one IKEA Apstuga on my desk, sitting right next to a good CO2 monitor. Since Apstuga uses worse approach (heat) rather than light as the good sensors, it diviates around +/- 100 ppm. For example the correct CO2 is 610 ppm and IKEA's sensor shows 552 ppm with is reasonably close. So the trend will be correct and the values will not be. But when it goes over the safe limit it should be enough to decide to ventilate.

by Liftyee 3mo ago

deleted 3mo ago

[deleted]

microtonal 3mo ago

No, it is crap. Yes, it is Sensirion, but it uses a thermal conductivity sensor, which is a very indirect method of measuring CO2. One part of the sensor emits heat and the other senses it and the idea is that heat transfer changes with different CO2 concentrations. However, a lot of other factors influence this as well, such as ambient temperature/humidity (which is why the sensor incorporates measurements from an SHT sensor), but also gas mixture, etc. You only get good readings at lab conditions. Even below 1000 ppm, I would often see readings that are 300 ppm from more expensive, known-good CO2 meters. If you want a CO2 meter on the cheap, either wire up an optical NDIR sensor like the SenseAir S88 (22 Euro) up to an esp32, which is possibly the best sensor you can get for the money (slightly cheaper version of the sensor that the AraNet4 uses). Or if you want something standalone with a display, get the SwitchBot Meter Pro CO2 for ~50 Euro, which uses a photoacoustic NDIR, but is still miles better than the sensor in the ALPSTUGA. Can also be hooked up with HA through an ESPHome BLE proxy or with the SwitchBot Hub. You can find a comparison of the IKEA sensor with other affordable sensors here: https://danieldk.eu/hardware/smart-home/ikea-alpstuga https://danieldk.eu/hardware/smart-home/ikea-alpstuga (Upd: the IKEA does have lower accuracy, with ±100 ppm instead of ±30 ppm. From the SEN63C datasheet) You forget to mention that it is ±100ppm plus ±10% of the ambient ppm, which makes a big difference. At 1000ppm it's ±(100ppm + 0.10*1000) = 200ppm and that's only in an environment with 25C, 50% RH, and 1013 mbar. So, that does not tell you much, given that thermal conductivity is very sensitive to environmental factors.

nok22kon 3mo ago
if you just want to know if CO2 is too much, 300ppm precision is fine. I dont need to know the exact level, just give me a green/yellow/red LED and make it cheap so I can have a sensor in every room
- microtonal 3mo ago
  No, it's not. You generally want to ventilate an office when you reach 1000ppm, but then the IKEA will often warn you already at 700ppm. 700ppm is fine.
  - nok22kon 3mo ago
    you assume that the error will always be in one direction and if sometimes you ventilate a bit sooner than required, at 700, what? businesses will not put $200 meters in every room
    - spockz 3mo ago
      Presumably there is still the need to ventilate. So the concentration can also be measured more centrally. That is how the mechanical ventilation unit in my house works. For both humidity and CO2.
    - microtonal 3mo ago
      businesses will not put $200 meters in every room There are good $50 Euro meters. Besides that, I am not sure if that is true, at my wife's workplace, they put high-end CO2 meters in every larger room where multiple people meet. Admittedly, this was during COVID, so a lot of organizations were using CO2 levels as a proxy for finding whether a room was properly ventilated.
    - doobiedowner 3mo ago
      You put one CO2 sensor in the return air duct and tie it to outside air control.
    - 3mo ago

yoshuaw 3mo ago

Worse specs? Sure. Worse value? I don't think so. Worse accuracy? Perhaps not either. A price of 30 EUR makes this sensor really easy to pick up. For the same price as one Aranet (~180 EUR) the typical household can place a sensor in every room of the house. Which provides far more accurate readings for the whole house than just one high-end sensor in one room.

freefaler 3mo ago
I have one IKEA Apstuga on my desk, sitting right next to a good CO2 monitor. Since Apstuga uses worse approach (heat) rather than light as the good sensors, it diviates around +/- 100 ppm. For example the correct CO2 is 610 ppm and IKEA's sensor shows 552 ppm with is reasonably close. So the trend will be correct and the values will not be. But when it goes over the safe limit it should be enough to decide to ventilate.