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No it's an indication that notoriety in Discord servers isn't a basis for relevance in an encyclopedia. Which is a good choice. A streamer mentioned a language

No it's an indication that notoriety in Discord servers isn't a basis for relevance in an encyclopedia. Which is a good choice. A streamer mentioned a language? Wikipedia isn't Twitter. As a reader thank god not everything that has grabbed the attention of social media gets an article.

jibal 4mo ago
I'm talking about a universe of developing systems programming languages, not "the attention of social media" -- that's a silly shallow bad faith reduction. And I see that elsewhere you have written "a archive for whatever trends on social media, which seems to be the articles criterion for the relevance of Odin" -- it doesn't seem that way to anyone who is remotely intellectually honest ... clearly it is ideology about the scope of Wikipedia articles that is work here totally independently of any knowledge of or details about Odin. There is also virtually no attention in these comments to the content of TFA, e.g., > the entire point of this article is to counter the social media persona where dunking by performative disinterest and uncuriosity are a virtue and rewarded by engagement and short-term reward structures. Anyway, the Wikipedia article was deleted -- you won. People are still entitled to think that it was a mistake and to say why.
- bawolff 4mo ago
  > I'm talking about a universe of developing systems programming languages Are you though? Like this seems like hobby project that hasn't really generated much discussion or interest in the broader programming language community, and practically speaking doesn't seem to have seen much use as a systems programming language (a single vfx package isn't really that impressive). People seem to get offended by the notion that this language is obscure and hasn't generated much interest, and yet they don't seem to offer any counter examples.
  - jibal 4mo ago
    > Are you though? Yes ... read the other comments and TFA that you have completely ignored. And I wouldn't have said that I was talking about that if I weren't talking about that. > People seem to get offended by the notion that this language is obscure and hasn't generated much interest Nonsense. > and yet they don't seem to offer any counter examples. Nonsense. (These statements individually and together are literally incoherent.) The bad faith here is tiresome. Virtually no one has even read TFA, which is actually a defense of Wikipedia and devolves into an attack on Ginger Bill for following right wingers on Twitter. (And I'm no fan of those people, to say the least, but they have nothing to do with the notability of Odin.)
skotobaza 4mo ago
Why wouldn't you want to have an article about a programming language that is currently used in production by someone? Are there any downsides to this?
- Barrin92 4mo ago
  what I want doesn't matter for an encyclopedia. Encyclopedias rely on secondary and not primary sources because they must be authoritative. The CEO of Kelloggs doesn't get to write the wikipedia article for kelloggs even if millions of people eat his cornflakes. If a programming language is widely used in production then sourcing an article with secondary sources ought to be trivial. But the appropriate content for primary information and original research for a language.. is the language's website.
  - skotobaza 4mo ago
    But the goal of an encyclopedia is to inform people on things that it covers, isn't it? It's quite broad with Wikipedia but still... The language clearly exists, it's not a student project, it's is use, people are interested in it. So the page was created, but is now removed because of formalities (the lack of good enough sources).
    - stymaar 4mo ago
      > But the goal of an encyclopedia is to inform people on things that it covers, isn't it? Yes, but that implies filtering on all things that are false. And in this day and age, filtering truth is a very hard thing to do, so instead they set the bar a little higher at “a reputable source checked that it is indeed true”. As a result, there's plenty of things that are both true and well known to plenty of people that aren't on Wikipedia, but that's fine, and encyclopedia doesn't need to be exhaustive to be useful. But on the flip side, if they didn't, it would soon be filled by tons of made up things fabricated for marketing reasons.
    - jibal 4mo ago
      Note the bad faith of your correspondent: > As a reader thank god not everything that has grabbed the attention of social media gets an article. ... > what I want doesn't matter for an encyclopedia.
baranul 4mo ago
Exactly. Because a person hangs out in certain social media circles or bubbles, doesn't mean that information from those places are general public knowledge or meets the standards that Wikipedia asks for.
- jibal 4mo ago
  Of course it's not general public knowledge ... that's why we put information in encyclopedias and other sources of information. People run across a mention of Odin and want to know about it.

jibal 4mo ago

I'm talking about a universe of developing systems programming languages, not "the attention of social media" -- that's a silly shallow bad faith reduction. And I see that elsewhere you have written "a archive for whatever trends on social media, which seems to be the articles criterion for the relevance of Odin" -- it doesn't seem that way to anyone who is remotely intellectually honest ... clearly it is ideology about the scope of Wikipedia articles that is work here totally independently of any knowledge of or details about Odin. There is also virtually no attention in these comments to the content of TFA, e.g., > the entire point of this article is to counter the social media persona where dunking by performative disinterest and uncuriosity are a virtue and rewarded by engagement and short-term reward structures. Anyway, the Wikipedia article was deleted -- you won. People are still entitled to think that it was a mistake and to say why.

bawolff 4mo ago
> I'm talking about a universe of developing systems programming languages Are you though? Like this seems like hobby project that hasn't really generated much discussion or interest in the broader programming language community, and practically speaking doesn't seem to have seen much use as a systems programming language (a single vfx package isn't really that impressive). People seem to get offended by the notion that this language is obscure and hasn't generated much interest, and yet they don't seem to offer any counter examples.
- jibal 4mo ago
  > Are you though? Yes ... read the other comments and TFA that you have completely ignored. And I wouldn't have said that I was talking about that if I weren't talking about that. > People seem to get offended by the notion that this language is obscure and hasn't generated much interest Nonsense. > and yet they don't seem to offer any counter examples. Nonsense. (These statements individually and together are literally incoherent.) The bad faith here is tiresome. Virtually no one has even read TFA, which is actually a defense of Wikipedia and devolves into an attack on Ginger Bill for following right wingers on Twitter. (And I'm no fan of those people, to say the least, but they have nothing to do with the notability of Odin.)

skotobaza 4mo ago

Why wouldn't you want to have an article about a programming language that is currently used in production by someone? Are there any downsides to this?

Barrin92 4mo ago
what I want doesn't matter for an encyclopedia. Encyclopedias rely on secondary and not primary sources because they must be authoritative. The CEO of Kelloggs doesn't get to write the wikipedia article for kelloggs even if millions of people eat his cornflakes. If a programming language is widely used in production then sourcing an article with secondary sources ought to be trivial. But the appropriate content for primary information and original research for a language.. is the language's website.
- skotobaza 4mo ago
  But the goal of an encyclopedia is to inform people on things that it covers, isn't it? It's quite broad with Wikipedia but still... The language clearly exists, it's not a student project, it's is use, people are interested in it. So the page was created, but is now removed because of formalities (the lack of good enough sources).
  - stymaar 4mo ago
    > But the goal of an encyclopedia is to inform people on things that it covers, isn't it? Yes, but that implies filtering on all things that are false. And in this day and age, filtering truth is a very hard thing to do, so instead they set the bar a little higher at “a reputable source checked that it is indeed true”. As a result, there's plenty of things that are both true and well known to plenty of people that aren't on Wikipedia, but that's fine, and encyclopedia doesn't need to be exhaustive to be useful. But on the flip side, if they didn't, it would soon be filled by tons of made up things fabricated for marketing reasons.
  - jibal 4mo ago
    Note the bad faith of your correspondent: > As a reader thank god not everything that has grabbed the attention of social media gets an article. ... > what I want doesn't matter for an encyclopedia.

baranul 4mo ago

Exactly. Because a person hangs out in certain social media circles or bubbles, doesn't mean that information from those places are general public knowledge or meets the standards that Wikipedia asks for.

jibal 4mo ago
Of course it's not general public knowledge ... that's why we put information in encyclopedias and other sources of information. People run across a mention of Odin and want to know about it.