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American workers already lead the world in earnning and spending. There is a tiny list of much smaller countries that earn more, but they spend less. There is

American workers already lead the world in earnning and spending. There is a tiny list of much smaller countries that earn more, but they spend less. There is no option to Simply pay the masses more. A company paying Americans a healthy salary for putting in screws would rapidly go out of business.to one that imports from China. If you block imports, you just get more expensive and less stuff. Also, the entire Henry Ford story is entirely bullshit (look it up). Ford raised wages in the 1910s because there was a labor crisis and it was brutal work, so they couldn't keep employees. The average factory worker would quit after 3 months which was extremely disruptive. Also, the economics of the story make no sense. Even if the workers spent their entire pay bump at Ford every year, Ford would still be losing money on the idea. If a $300 raise was spent to buy a $300 car, the company only profits maybe $30 on the sale, so they are still in the hole -$270 on the raise. Workers would have to somehow spend more than their raise on cars every year.

mschuster91 4mo ago
> American workers already lead the world in earnning and spending. Tech workers yes, the wide masses scrape by, barely making rent. The problem with using averages is that ultra high extremes massively contort the statistic - a trap that the Biden/Harris admin didn't recognize until it was too late and they lost to Trump as a result. As for the Ford story - I am aware that the story isn't as black and white [1]. Key thing is, what he did to retain labor was considered revolutionary for the time, and something that I do not expect to see a repeat of today, despite claims of a "labor shortage" everywhere. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1d90hf/til_that_henry_ford_was_the_first_industrial/ https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1d90hf/til_t...
- s1artibartfast 4mo ago
  the Ford story isnt in between, it is very clear. Nowhere in that source article does it say anything about "encouraging more lesiure use of automobiles". This is more magical thinking. Higher pay to secure workers is universally understood today, from fastfood restruants to AI companies. However, OpenAI is not paying employees tens of millions in hopes that they spend more than that buying OpenAI credits on the weekend. Similarly, openai doesnt give them weekends in hopes that they get free advertising of their product. Labor shortage is always relative to the price one is willing to pay. Where is this strawman coming from?
  - mschuster91 4mo ago
    > Higher pay to secure workers is universally understood today, from fastfood restruants to AI companies. Yeah... and guess what, restaurants are struggling to find people able to afford eating out. The AI companies are finding out that companies aren't willing to pay actually realistic, unsubsidized prices for tokens. A healthy economy needs the ability of people to spend, or it will go into a self-destructive spiral.
    - s1artibartfast 4mo ago
      Yeah, and those restruant owners know they would have applications out the door if they payed $100/hr. That isnt secret knowledge reddit figured out and owners/managers cant comprehend.
      - mschuster91 4mo ago
        The problem is they can't because otherwise even less people would come and dine. That's the central issue. Too much is too fucked up and especially, too much wealth is either tied up in the 1%'s assets or in pension funds, which leads back to my introduction comment: > That is a political thing. Normally, the government would need to step in on a large scale to fix that, but as we all know, the current government is utterly braindead and the competition will have their hands full with fixing the mess for too long to even think about the reforms needed.
        s1artibartfast 4mo ago
        that problem has nothing to do with the 1% or pension funds tho. You cant fix the problem of low skill labor being inefficient by raising wages for that work. I dont want to pay someone $1000 to cut my lawn with scissiors when I can buy a lawnmower for $200. raising their wage doesnt solve that. Same for putting screws in an iphone. You cant have both the cheap iphone and the high paid worker. A government mandate doesnt solve this.
        4mo ago

mschuster91 4mo ago

> American workers already lead the world in earnning and spending. Tech workers yes, the wide masses scrape by, barely making rent. The problem with using averages is that ultra high extremes massively contort the statistic - a trap that the Biden/Harris admin didn't recognize until it was too late and they lost to Trump as a result. As for the Ford story - I am aware that the story isn't as black and white [1]. Key thing is, what he did to retain labor was considered revolutionary for the time, and something that I do not expect to see a repeat of today, despite claims of a "labor shortage" everywhere. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1d90hf/til_that_henry_ford_was_the_first_industrial/ https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1d90hf/til_t...

s1artibartfast 4mo ago
the Ford story isnt in between, it is very clear. Nowhere in that source article does it say anything about "encouraging more lesiure use of automobiles". This is more magical thinking. Higher pay to secure workers is universally understood today, from fastfood restruants to AI companies. However, OpenAI is not paying employees tens of millions in hopes that they spend more than that buying OpenAI credits on the weekend. Similarly, openai doesnt give them weekends in hopes that they get free advertising of their product. Labor shortage is always relative to the price one is willing to pay. Where is this strawman coming from?
- mschuster91 4mo ago
  > Higher pay to secure workers is universally understood today, from fastfood restruants to AI companies. Yeah... and guess what, restaurants are struggling to find people able to afford eating out. The AI companies are finding out that companies aren't willing to pay actually realistic, unsubsidized prices for tokens. A healthy economy needs the ability of people to spend, or it will go into a self-destructive spiral.
  - s1artibartfast 4mo ago
    Yeah, and those restruant owners know they would have applications out the door if they payed $100/hr. That isnt secret knowledge reddit figured out and owners/managers cant comprehend.
    - mschuster91 4mo ago
      The problem is they can't because otherwise even less people would come and dine. That's the central issue. Too much is too fucked up and especially, too much wealth is either tied up in the 1%'s assets or in pension funds, which leads back to my introduction comment: > That is a political thing. Normally, the government would need to step in on a large scale to fix that, but as we all know, the current government is utterly braindead and the competition will have their hands full with fixing the mess for too long to even think about the reforms needed.
      - s1artibartfast 4mo ago
        that problem has nothing to do with the 1% or pension funds tho. You cant fix the problem of low skill labor being inefficient by raising wages for that work. I dont want to pay someone $1000 to cut my lawn with scissiors when I can buy a lawnmower for $200. raising their wage doesnt solve that. Same for putting screws in an iphone. You cant have both the cheap iphone and the high paid worker. A government mandate doesnt solve this.
        4mo ago