4 ms·

> Americans have some romance with the notion of "millions and millions of human beings screwing in little, little screws to make iPhones". It's bizarre stuff.

by toast0 4mo ago

> Americans have some romance with the notion of "millions and millions of human beings screwing in little, little screws to make iPhones". It's bizarre stuff. Screwing in little, little screws to make stuff used to be a pretty decent job in the US. Most people can be trained for assembly work, which really isn't the case for tech, arts, media etc. Most of that work is super repetitive and some of it is dangerous and etc, etc. Lots of reasons not to like doing it, but having it available as an option was pretty nice. That's why there's romantic feelings.

llm_nerd 4mo ago
> Screwing in little, little screws to make stuff used to be a pretty decent job in the US Sure, I get the "romance about the past" notion, but it will never, ever be a decent job again. The clock isn't turning back, and the perverse thing is that in pursuing that "make it the 50s again" political agenda, Americans guaranteed your oligarchs are going to take ever more of the pie. That isn't because Canada grows a low value crop. It's because people like Musk, Bezos and others are completely running away with the country while people vote against themselves chasing an absolute myth. Fun fact -- the US goods trade deficit is literally the worst it has been in history, and every indication is it's going entirely in the wrong direction. But hey, at least Trump got a lot of bribes and you got your first trillionaire.
- mschuster91 4mo ago
  > Sure, I get the "romance about the past" notion, but it will never, ever be a decent job again. That is a political thing. Pay the masses more money and they can afford domestically made products again. It's not that difficult. Henry Ford figured that one out a century ago - when people had ample money, they could afford to consume. But when all money a company makes has to go to the stock markets because numbers must go up, there is no money left to redistribute to workers.
  - s1artibartfast 4mo ago
    American workers already lead the world in earnning and spending. There is a tiny list of much smaller countries that earn more, but they spend less. There is no option to Simply pay the masses more. A company paying Americans a healthy salary for putting in screws would rapidly go out of business.to one that imports from China. If you block imports, you just get more expensive and less stuff. Also, the entire Henry Ford story is entirely bullshit (look it up). Ford raised wages in the 1910s because there was a labor crisis and it was brutal work, so they couldn't keep employees. The average factory worker would quit after 3 months which was extremely disruptive. Also, the economics of the story make no sense. Even if the workers spent their entire pay bump at Ford every year, Ford would still be losing money on the idea. If a $300 raise was spent to buy a $300 car, the company only profits maybe $30 on the sale, so they are still in the hole -$270 on the raise. Workers would have to somehow spend more than their raise on cars every year.
    - mschuster91 4mo ago
      > American workers already lead the world in earnning and spending. Tech workers yes, the wide masses scrape by, barely making rent. The problem with using averages is that ultra high extremes massively contort the statistic - a trap that the Biden/Harris admin didn't recognize until it was too late and they lost to Trump as a result. As for the Ford story - I am aware that the story isn't as black and white [1]. Key thing is, what he did to retain labor was considered revolutionary for the time, and something that I do not expect to see a repeat of today, despite claims of a "labor shortage" everywhere. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1d90hf/til_that_henry_ford_was_the_first_industrial/ https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1d90hf/til_t...
      - s1artibartfast 4mo ago
        the Ford story isnt in between, it is very clear. Nowhere in that source article does it say anything about "encouraging more lesiure use of automobiles". This is more magical thinking. Higher pay to secure workers is universally understood today, from fastfood restruants to AI companies. However, OpenAI is not paying employees tens of millions in hopes that they spend more than that buying OpenAI credits on the weekend. Similarly, openai doesnt give them weekends in hopes that they get free advertising of their product. Labor shortage is always relative to the price one is willing to pay. Where is this strawman coming from?
- Amezarak 4mo ago
  According to the BLS, 10x more people are employed in the manufacturing sector than the information sector, and average hourly pay is $36/hr. What are you talking about? Manufacturing employment was also much higher in the 1980s and 1990s than the 1950s - the decline didn't really start until the 2000s.

by toast0 4mo ago

llm_nerd 4mo ago

> Screwing in little, little screws to make stuff used to be a pretty decent job in the US Sure, I get the "romance about the past" notion, but it will never, ever be a decent job again. The clock isn't turning back, and the perverse thing is that in pursuing that "make it the 50s again" political agenda, Americans guaranteed your oligarchs are going to take ever more of the pie. That isn't because Canada grows a low value crop. It's because people like Musk, Bezos and others are completely running away with the country while people vote against themselves chasing an absolute myth. Fun fact -- the US goods trade deficit is literally the worst it has been in history, and every indication is it's going entirely in the wrong direction. But hey, at least Trump got a lot of bribes and you got your first trillionaire.

mschuster91 4mo ago
> Sure, I get the "romance about the past" notion, but it will never, ever be a decent job again. That is a political thing. Pay the masses more money and they can afford domestically made products again. It's not that difficult. Henry Ford figured that one out a century ago - when people had ample money, they could afford to consume. But when all money a company makes has to go to the stock markets because numbers must go up, there is no money left to redistribute to workers.
- s1artibartfast 4mo ago
  American workers already lead the world in earnning and spending. There is a tiny list of much smaller countries that earn more, but they spend less. There is no option to Simply pay the masses more. A company paying Americans a healthy salary for putting in screws would rapidly go out of business.to one that imports from China. If you block imports, you just get more expensive and less stuff. Also, the entire Henry Ford story is entirely bullshit (look it up). Ford raised wages in the 1910s because there was a labor crisis and it was brutal work, so they couldn't keep employees. The average factory worker would quit after 3 months which was extremely disruptive. Also, the economics of the story make no sense. Even if the workers spent their entire pay bump at Ford every year, Ford would still be losing money on the idea. If a $300 raise was spent to buy a $300 car, the company only profits maybe $30 on the sale, so they are still in the hole -$270 on the raise. Workers would have to somehow spend more than their raise on cars every year.
  - mschuster91 4mo ago
    > American workers already lead the world in earnning and spending. Tech workers yes, the wide masses scrape by, barely making rent. The problem with using averages is that ultra high extremes massively contort the statistic - a trap that the Biden/Harris admin didn't recognize until it was too late and they lost to Trump as a result. As for the Ford story - I am aware that the story isn't as black and white [1]. Key thing is, what he did to retain labor was considered revolutionary for the time, and something that I do not expect to see a repeat of today, despite claims of a "labor shortage" everywhere. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1d90hf/til_that_henry_ford_was_the_first_industrial/ https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/1d90hf/til_t...
    - s1artibartfast 4mo ago
      the Ford story isnt in between, it is very clear. Nowhere in that source article does it say anything about "encouraging more lesiure use of automobiles". This is more magical thinking. Higher pay to secure workers is universally understood today, from fastfood restruants to AI companies. However, OpenAI is not paying employees tens of millions in hopes that they spend more than that buying OpenAI credits on the weekend. Similarly, openai doesnt give them weekends in hopes that they get free advertising of their product. Labor shortage is always relative to the price one is willing to pay. Where is this strawman coming from?
Amezarak 4mo ago
According to the BLS, 10x more people are employed in the manufacturing sector than the information sector, and average hourly pay is $36/hr. What are you talking about? Manufacturing employment was also much higher in the 1980s and 1990s than the 1950s - the decline didn't really start until the 2000s.