6 ms·

It is revealing how people with disabilities are treated, just to walk on sidewalk as a deaf person. Most cyclicts assume they have a priority on sidewalks, an

It is revealing how people with disabilities are treated, just to walk on sidewalk as a deaf person. Most cyclicts assume they have a priority on sidewalks, and will ring bell to enforce it. If you do not jump out of their way in 2 seconds, you get rammed. Cyclists know I can not hear them (I am wearing big noise cancelling headphones). Yet they still insist on their imaginary priority on sidewalks. I was forced to remove my noise cancelling headphones, just to hear their slurs! Cyclists on bike have no priority, they are not allowed to cycle on sidewalks! They should be using roads! I am allowed to wear my noise cancelling headphones on sidewalk! I looked it up!

mslate 3mo ago
What exactly does this have to do with the article?
jmyeet 3mo ago
This went from "deaf people should be allowd to function in society", which is absolutely fair, to "I don't want to take any responsibility for being aware of my surroundings", which is what wearing noise-cancelling headphones in public is. You can do that but you then share some of the blame when things go wrong. Saying "well, deaf people have to deal with this so it's not my fault" isn't the defence I think you think it is. Do I close my eyes and walk blindly in public there are blind people? No. Accomodations are for people who need them not a shield for hyper-selfishness. I cycle and I either don't wear any headphones or I use the open ones where I can still hear my surroundings. I assume every driver is eitehr an oblivious idiot or is out to kill me. I assume it's every pedestrian's first day on Earth because that's how it seems. The level of entitlement I see on a daily basis is insane. Runners who refuse to get out of dedicated bike lanes, people who park in dedicated bike lanes, people who get annoyed that I go onto the road when I'm allowed to, people that get annoyed that I go onto the sidewalk or road because I have to (often because the bike path is blocked), people who walk 5 abreast on a shared pedestrian bike path, etc etc etc. But what really gets me is people who have elevated their own hyper-selfishness into some kind of virtue. "I'm going to block out all noise in a public space because that's what deaf people have to deal with" is a new one for me. Oh and as an aside, people who are deaf often aren't completely deaf. Deafness (and blindness) is a spectrum.
- Retric 3mo ago
  People have zero obligation to be able to hear their surroundings. Listening to music on a walk is a perfectly acceptable thing to do. It’s very slightly less safe for them, but they aren’t risking other people so that’s fine.
  - jmyeet 3mo ago
    That's simply not true and bad advice. This comes up in distracted driving cases. If you play music so loud that you can't hear your surroundings, you can become partially (or wholly) at fault for an accident [1]. I guarantee you there are situations where your intentional sensory deprivation will lead to legal liability so you have to be extra careful if you choose to do that. You have an affirmative responsibility to act in a reasonable fashion to mitigate risks for yourself and others. [1]: https://naqvilaw.com/las-vegas-impaired-driving-attorney/loud-music-distracted-driving/ https://naqvilaw.com/las-vegas-impaired-driving-attorney/lou...
    - Planktonne 3mo ago
      In distracted driving cases, you're behind the wheel of a vehicle that is capable of harming others; that's why it leads to legal liability. In situations where you are not likely to cause harm, "act[ing] in a reasonable fashion to mitigate risks for yourself and others" does not require anything from you.
      - jmyeet 3mo ago
        All of this is really making my point. Being a pedestrian does not absolve you of all responsibility to mitigate harm. If you cycled at all you’d quickly learn just how entitled and oblivious so many pedestrians act. Cyclists do stupid and dangerous things too. Believe me I am aware. I have to anticipate those too. But, in my experience, nobody acts with more carelessness and selfishness than pedestrians. And I say that as one of them too.
        3mo ago
fizzynut 3mo ago
A pedestrian has priority on the road, that doesn't mean you should walk into the road with your eyes closed wearing noise cancelling headphones.
DuperPower 3mo ago
is this a netherlands post? because normal countries dont assume human on bike IS the default
- thrtythreeforty 3mo ago
  Cyclists doing whatever they feel like is status quo everywhere. Now I'm most important sidewalk user! Now I'm a car! Now the traffic rules don't apply to me! (Not all cyclists do this. But the rude ones are common enough that "cyclists" have gotten this reputation.)
- Jaxan 3mo ago
  No. In the Netherlands is not common to cycle on side walks. We have cycling lanes for that! Pedestrians and cyclists only meet at crossings. (The behaviour of cyclists in the big cities might be different though.)
scragz 3mo ago
and then you ride in the street and drivers yell "get on the sidewalk" and try to hit you.
- mikestew 3mo ago
  That isn’t the fault of the sidewalk users, don’t make it their problem.
TimByte 3mo ago
Sidewalks have to be usable by people who can't hear, people moving slowly, kids, older people etc. If a cyclist is on a sidewalk and can't safely pass without the pedestrian reacting instantly, they're the one creating the problem
- estebank 3mo ago
  We can't individual responsibility our way out of systemic problems. Cyclists on sidewalks generally signals terrible bike infrastructure. There are people on bikes that ride like an asshole. There are people on cars that drive like an asshole. Both cause (different levels of) risk for pedestrians. There's only so much we can do about assholes, social ostracism works only so far and social change is much harder to accomplish than modifying our built environment to reduce or eliminate conflict points. As an aside, I've noticed people get startled when I'm on my bike stopped but balancing on my bike while I wait for then to cross. I think some people intuitively model bikes on the same category as cars, so being anywhere close causes them to react as if a car hard crept close.
  - shermantanktop 3mo ago
    Thanks for stopping. In my experience as a pedestrian, bikes are worse than cars. Less predictable, less observant of laws, and more willing to take risks that depend on others jumping out of their way. On the plus side, they don’t weigh 3000lbs.
    - physicalecon 3mo ago
      I don’t personally know anyone hit by a car, but my dad ended up in the hospital with a collapsed lung due to a drunk cyclist ramming him on the boardwalk. Bicycles belong on the streets. (I bike to work most days, I take the streets)
    - analog31 3mo ago
      The statistics still point towards being more concerned about cars.
singpolyma3 3mo ago
Cycling on sidewalks is illegal here in Canada. Surprised it's being allowed elsewhere
- kps 3mo ago
  In my part of Canada it's illegal and allowed.
- captainbland 3mo ago
  Generally it's more "overlooked" than allowed. In the UK for instance cycling on pavements (sidewalks) is unlawful but the guidance is to only enforce this if the cyclist is not giving consideration to pedestrians. Realistically though I think it leads to the same state of play as everywhere else where pedestrians don't much fancy being hit by a faster moving and taller (if not larger) object so dodge out of the way even if they aren't necessarily obligated to.
  - jdboyd 3mo ago
    In my part of small city east coast USA it is allowed except in the downtown business district (where it is syill mostly ignored. On the one hand, not everyone wants to be required to have their 4yo ride on the road with no bike lane, but on the other hand, I hate having preteens on extra.heavy looking bikes below out of the way at me why they drive at nearly car speeds on the sidewalk. Of course we wouldn't really have to ban bikes on sidewalks to deal with those preteens as preteens aren't allowed on electric bikes or electric scooters anyway in this state. And electric scooters aren't allowed on the sidewalk or road here.
- estebank 3mo ago
  In cycling threads you always have comments both telling cyclists to stay out of sidewalks and others telling cyclists that they "only* belong in sidewalks (and away from the road they drive in). It is legal in some places, illegal in as many others, and has caveats almost everywhere (children are almost always allowed, in other places it is based on speed, etc.).
- ryandrake 3mo ago
khurs 3mo ago
Video any such interaction. They go viral easily and the culprit learns their lesson.
bradley13 3mo ago
WTF? Bicycles on sidewalks? At least where I am, that's illegal, and I'm not moving.
analog31 3mo ago
I'm a cyclist, and I sympathize with you. Also, my mom is stone deaf, and I've observed her experiences on paths that are shared with cyclists. My town is one of the few places where cyclists are allowed on the sidewalks, but I don't do it except for very good reasons such as along dangerous roads. Those places also tend to have no pedestrians. And I give wide berth to people on foot, typically slowing down to walking pace or even getting off my bike and walking. Also, the bell is for "announcing" not "enforcing." It's gentler than startling someone as you pass them, or making their dog freak out. And it doesn't preclude slowing down.

mslate 3mo ago

What exactly does this have to do with the article?

jmyeet 3mo ago

This went from "deaf people should be allowd to function in society", which is absolutely fair, to "I don't want to take any responsibility for being aware of my surroundings", which is what wearing noise-cancelling headphones in public is. You can do that but you then share some of the blame when things go wrong. Saying "well, deaf people have to deal with this so it's not my fault" isn't the defence I think you think it is. Do I close my eyes and walk blindly in public there are blind people? No. Accomodations are for people who need them not a shield for hyper-selfishness. I cycle and I either don't wear any headphones or I use the open ones where I can still hear my surroundings. I assume every driver is eitehr an oblivious idiot or is out to kill me. I assume it's every pedestrian's first day on Earth because that's how it seems. The level of entitlement I see on a daily basis is insane. Runners who refuse to get out of dedicated bike lanes, people who park in dedicated bike lanes, people who get annoyed that I go onto the road when I'm allowed to, people that get annoyed that I go onto the sidewalk or road because I have to (often because the bike path is blocked), people who walk 5 abreast on a shared pedestrian bike path, etc etc etc. But what really gets me is people who have elevated their own hyper-selfishness into some kind of virtue. "I'm going to block out all noise in a public space because that's what deaf people have to deal with" is a new one for me. Oh and as an aside, people who are deaf often aren't completely deaf. Deafness (and blindness) is a spectrum.

Retric 3mo ago
People have zero obligation to be able to hear their surroundings. Listening to music on a walk is a perfectly acceptable thing to do. It’s very slightly less safe for them, but they aren’t risking other people so that’s fine.
- jmyeet 3mo ago
  That's simply not true and bad advice. This comes up in distracted driving cases. If you play music so loud that you can't hear your surroundings, you can become partially (or wholly) at fault for an accident [1]. I guarantee you there are situations where your intentional sensory deprivation will lead to legal liability so you have to be extra careful if you choose to do that. You have an affirmative responsibility to act in a reasonable fashion to mitigate risks for yourself and others. [1]: https://naqvilaw.com/las-vegas-impaired-driving-attorney/loud-music-distracted-driving/ https://naqvilaw.com/las-vegas-impaired-driving-attorney/lou...
  - Planktonne 3mo ago
    In distracted driving cases, you're behind the wheel of a vehicle that is capable of harming others; that's why it leads to legal liability. In situations where you are not likely to cause harm, "act[ing] in a reasonable fashion to mitigate risks for yourself and others" does not require anything from you.
    - jmyeet 3mo ago
      All of this is really making my point. Being a pedestrian does not absolve you of all responsibility to mitigate harm. If you cycled at all you’d quickly learn just how entitled and oblivious so many pedestrians act. Cyclists do stupid and dangerous things too. Believe me I am aware. I have to anticipate those too. But, in my experience, nobody acts with more carelessness and selfishness than pedestrians. And I say that as one of them too.
      - 3mo ago

fizzynut 3mo ago

A pedestrian has priority on the road, that doesn't mean you should walk into the road with your eyes closed wearing noise cancelling headphones.

DuperPower 3mo ago

is this a netherlands post? because normal countries dont assume human on bike IS the default

thrtythreeforty 3mo ago
Cyclists doing whatever they feel like is status quo everywhere. Now I'm most important sidewalk user! Now I'm a car! Now the traffic rules don't apply to me! (Not all cyclists do this. But the rude ones are common enough that "cyclists" have gotten this reputation.)
Jaxan 3mo ago
No. In the Netherlands is not common to cycle on side walks. We have cycling lanes for that! Pedestrians and cyclists only meet at crossings. (The behaviour of cyclists in the big cities might be different though.)

scragz 3mo ago

and then you ride in the street and drivers yell "get on the sidewalk" and try to hit you.

mikestew 3mo ago
That isn’t the fault of the sidewalk users, don’t make it their problem.

TimByte 3mo ago

Sidewalks have to be usable by people who can't hear, people moving slowly, kids, older people etc. If a cyclist is on a sidewalk and can't safely pass without the pedestrian reacting instantly, they're the one creating the problem

estebank 3mo ago
We can't individual responsibility our way out of systemic problems. Cyclists on sidewalks generally signals terrible bike infrastructure. There are people on bikes that ride like an asshole. There are people on cars that drive like an asshole. Both cause (different levels of) risk for pedestrians. There's only so much we can do about assholes, social ostracism works only so far and social change is much harder to accomplish than modifying our built environment to reduce or eliminate conflict points. As an aside, I've noticed people get startled when I'm on my bike stopped but balancing on my bike while I wait for then to cross. I think some people intuitively model bikes on the same category as cars, so being anywhere close causes them to react as if a car hard crept close.
- shermantanktop 3mo ago
  Thanks for stopping. In my experience as a pedestrian, bikes are worse than cars. Less predictable, less observant of laws, and more willing to take risks that depend on others jumping out of their way. On the plus side, they don’t weigh 3000lbs.
  - physicalecon 3mo ago
    I don’t personally know anyone hit by a car, but my dad ended up in the hospital with a collapsed lung due to a drunk cyclist ramming him on the boardwalk. Bicycles belong on the streets. (I bike to work most days, I take the streets)
  - analog31 3mo ago
    The statistics still point towards being more concerned about cars.

singpolyma3 3mo ago

Cycling on sidewalks is illegal here in Canada. Surprised it's being allowed elsewhere

kps 3mo ago
In my part of Canada it's illegal and allowed.
captainbland 3mo ago
Generally it's more "overlooked" than allowed. In the UK for instance cycling on pavements (sidewalks) is unlawful but the guidance is to only enforce this if the cyclist is not giving consideration to pedestrians. Realistically though I think it leads to the same state of play as everywhere else where pedestrians don't much fancy being hit by a faster moving and taller (if not larger) object so dodge out of the way even if they aren't necessarily obligated to.
- jdboyd 3mo ago
  In my part of small city east coast USA it is allowed except in the downtown business district (where it is syill mostly ignored. On the one hand, not everyone wants to be required to have their 4yo ride on the road with no bike lane, but on the other hand, I hate having preteens on extra.heavy looking bikes below out of the way at me why they drive at nearly car speeds on the sidewalk. Of course we wouldn't really have to ban bikes on sidewalks to deal with those preteens as preteens aren't allowed on electric bikes or electric scooters anyway in this state. And electric scooters aren't allowed on the sidewalk or road here.
estebank 3mo ago
In cycling threads you always have comments both telling cyclists to stay out of sidewalks and others telling cyclists that they "only* belong in sidewalks (and away from the road they drive in). It is legal in some places, illegal in as many others, and has caveats almost everywhere (children are almost always allowed, in other places it is based on speed, etc.).
ryandrake 3mo ago

khurs 3mo ago

Video any such interaction. They go viral easily and the culprit learns their lesson.

bradley13 3mo ago

WTF? Bicycles on sidewalks? At least where I am, that's illegal, and I'm not moving.

analog31 3mo ago

I'm a cyclist, and I sympathize with you. Also, my mom is stone deaf, and I've observed her experiences on paths that are shared with cyclists. My town is one of the few places where cyclists are allowed on the sidewalks, but I don't do it except for very good reasons such as along dangerous roads. Those places also tend to have no pedestrians. And I give wide berth to people on foot, typically slowing down to walking pace or even getting off my bike and walking. Also, the bell is for "announcing" not "enforcing." It's gentler than startling someone as you pass them, or making their dog freak out. And it doesn't preclude slowing down.