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I think you would be surprised I think Tesla's strategy has three stages. 1) Niche high cost vehicle sold in low volumes(Roadster) 2) Medium cost luxury vehic

by rikf 14y ago

I think you would be surprised I think Tesla's strategy has three stages. 1) Niche high cost vehicle sold in low volumes(Roadster) 2) Medium cost luxury vehicle sold in medium volumes(Model S) 3) Low cost high volume vehicle sold in high volumes. (Model ???) Obviously this is a gross over simplification but I imagine that part of the engineering that is going on at TESLA is figuring out how to build 3 cheaper and at a higher quality then anybody else.

j2bax 14y ago
I am aware of their strategy, I just worry that the big automakers with their massive distribution and infrastructures already in place could easily come in and be 10 steps ahead of Tesla and provide a vehicle that isn't as sexy but has the same appeal to the electric car market. I could be overestimating their ability to innovate after so many years of sitting on the same old tired technology, but something tells me that they'd be willing to step up if it means they are going to be completely left in the dust of a tiny (by comparison) company.
- alxndr 14y ago
  "the big automakers ... could easily come in and be 10 steps ahead of Tesla and provide a vehicle that isn't as sexy but has the same appeal to the electric car market" Aren't they already trying to do that? Chevy's Volt, Nissan's Leaf, Ford apparently makes a fully PEV Focus now, as does Honda with a version of the Fit, and Toyota's gotta be working on the Prius...
  - arethuza 14y ago
    Not to mention European car makers that aren't well known in the US such as Renault and Peugeot Citroën. Renault have a small electric hatchback going on sale in the spring in the UK at £13,650 (including a grant): http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/car-manufacturers/renault/9656168/Renault-Zoe-an-electric-car-that-makes-sense.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/car-manufacturers/renaul... Personally, I'd be far more likely to buy a small electric hatchback than any of the Tesla models.
  - daliusd 14y ago
    Let's add Audi e-tron to the list (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_e-tron http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_e-tron).
  - iyulaev 14y ago
    This +1 What Tesla has done is made an electric car and marketed it as more luxurious and different from what's on the market. The Leaf is for hippies, the Volt is nowhere to be seen. The Tesla on the other hand is sexy. A bigger concern is how Tesla will expand from this market. For most manufacturers, the high-end cars are not the major money-makers, and the quantities they move are just too small (Lexus sells over 8 IS/GS for each LS they sell). We'll see if they manage to expand from the niche they're in.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
    - stcredzero 14y ago
      The Tesla on the other hand is sexy. A bigger concern is how Tesla will expand from this market. The Nissan Leaf just isn't a good deal. If Tesla can beat range anxiety in a package that costs $20k or less, then they'll have a winner. Sexy still sells with econobox cars. (Fiat 500?)
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]
- jamiequint 14y ago
  > I just worry that the big automakers with their massive distribution and infrastructures already in place could easily come in and be 10 steps ahead of Tesla and provide a vehicle that isn't as sexy but has the same appeal to the electric car market. I really doubt this. This is the classic innovators dilemma. The investments in electric don't look good enough yet for the car companies to go "all in". Their entire supply chain is built around making and selling cars that run on gas engines. Tesla isn't beholden to any kind of entrenched thinking and thus can build up an advantage here that is going to take the big car companies a while to catch up to once electric cars go mainstream. (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/120/Screenshots/innovators_dilemma_curve.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/120/Screenshots/innovators_dilemma_c...)
- jeremyarussell 14y ago
  This is one of the reason why patents are actually good, https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm=pts&hl=en&q=inassignee:Tesla+Motors,+Inc. https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm=pts&hl=en&#3... takes you to a list of stuff like this http://www.google.com/patents/US8286743 http://www.google.com/patents/US8286743 which happens to be my personal favorite, since it's this battery placement that gives Tesla cars an edge. (handling, acceleration and all that good stuff.) It's one of the examples of patents being done right, to protect innovation.
- freehunter 14y ago
  Well, Ford and Toyota are buying electric drivetrains from Tesla to put into their electric vehicles. The big automakers are easily able to match Tesla just by buying Tesla's parts, which Tesla is more than willing to sell them.
- njharman 14y ago
  > with their massive distribution and infrastructures That is a disadvantage. Along with their size that represents massive costs and massive inertia. The actual threat from incumbents is regulation(lobbying for) and legal. Both of which they can afford due to massive size and have established the "infrastructure" for.
- anonaccount27 14y ago
  I think Musk would be quite satisfied if the major automakers actually had affordable, high-performance electric cars as a staple. Mission accomplished and all that.
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
nicholassmith 14y ago
The simple answer is they'll make a Model S but smaller, but that might be dependent on battery tech improving so they can fit the batteries into the reduced space. FWIW the Model S is at a reasonably decent price for what it is, and I don't think they're too worried about going mass market until the market is ready in terms of infrastructure, acceptance etc.

by rikf 14y ago

j2bax 14y ago

I am aware of their strategy, I just worry that the big automakers with their massive distribution and infrastructures already in place could easily come in and be 10 steps ahead of Tesla and provide a vehicle that isn't as sexy but has the same appeal to the electric car market. I could be overestimating their ability to innovate after so many years of sitting on the same old tired technology, but something tells me that they'd be willing to step up if it means they are going to be completely left in the dust of a tiny (by comparison) company.

alxndr 14y ago
"the big automakers ... could easily come in and be 10 steps ahead of Tesla and provide a vehicle that isn't as sexy but has the same appeal to the electric car market" Aren't they already trying to do that? Chevy's Volt, Nissan's Leaf, Ford apparently makes a fully PEV Focus now, as does Honda with a version of the Fit, and Toyota's gotta be working on the Prius...
- arethuza 14y ago
  Not to mention European car makers that aren't well known in the US such as Renault and Peugeot Citroën. Renault have a small electric hatchback going on sale in the spring in the UK at £13,650 (including a grant): http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/car-manufacturers/renault/9656168/Renault-Zoe-an-electric-car-that-makes-sense.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/car-manufacturers/renaul... Personally, I'd be far more likely to buy a small electric hatchback than any of the Tesla models.
- daliusd 14y ago
  Let's add Audi e-tron to the list (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_e-tron http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audi_e-tron).
- iyulaev 14y ago
  This +1 What Tesla has done is made an electric car and marketed it as more luxurious and different from what's on the market. The Leaf is for hippies, the Volt is nowhere to be seen. The Tesla on the other hand is sexy. A bigger concern is how Tesla will expand from this market. For most manufacturers, the high-end cars are not the major money-makers, and the quantities they move are just too small (Lexus sells over 8 IS/GS for each LS they sell). We'll see if they manage to expand from the niche they're in.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - stcredzero 14y ago
    The Tesla on the other hand is sexy. A bigger concern is how Tesla will expand from this market. The Nissan Leaf just isn't a good deal. If Tesla can beat range anxiety in a package that costs $20k or less, then they'll have a winner. Sexy still sells with econobox cars. (Fiat 500?)
deleted 14y ago
[deleted]
jamiequint 14y ago
> I just worry that the big automakers with their massive distribution and infrastructures already in place could easily come in and be 10 steps ahead of Tesla and provide a vehicle that isn't as sexy but has the same appeal to the electric car market. I really doubt this. This is the classic innovators dilemma. The investments in electric don't look good enough yet for the car companies to go "all in". Their entire supply chain is built around making and selling cars that run on gas engines. Tesla isn't beholden to any kind of entrenched thinking and thus can build up an advantage here that is going to take the big car companies a while to catch up to once electric cars go mainstream. (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/120/Screenshots/innovators_dilemma_curve.png http://dl.dropbox.com/u/120/Screenshots/innovators_dilemma_c...)
jeremyarussell 14y ago
This is one of the reason why patents are actually good, https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm=pts&hl=en&q=inassignee:Tesla+Motors,+Inc. https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm=pts&hl=en&#3... takes you to a list of stuff like this http://www.google.com/patents/US8286743 http://www.google.com/patents/US8286743 which happens to be my personal favorite, since it's this battery placement that gives Tesla cars an edge. (handling, acceleration and all that good stuff.) It's one of the examples of patents being done right, to protect innovation.
freehunter 14y ago
Well, Ford and Toyota are buying electric drivetrains from Tesla to put into their electric vehicles. The big automakers are easily able to match Tesla just by buying Tesla's parts, which Tesla is more than willing to sell them.
njharman 14y ago
> with their massive distribution and infrastructures That is a disadvantage. Along with their size that represents massive costs and massive inertia. The actual threat from incumbents is regulation(lobbying for) and legal. Both of which they can afford due to massive size and have established the "infrastructure" for.
anonaccount27 14y ago
I think Musk would be quite satisfied if the major automakers actually had affordable, high-performance electric cars as a staple. Mission accomplished and all that.

deleted 14y ago

[deleted]

nicholassmith 14y ago

The simple answer is they'll make a Model S but smaller, but that might be dependent on battery tech improving so they can fit the batteries into the reduced space. FWIW the Model S is at a reasonably decent price for what it is, and I don't think they're too worried about going mass market until the market is ready in terms of infrastructure, acceptance etc.