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I wonder how these will fare in Saxony. I presume it's an industry which will attract and depend on highly qualified foreign workers. Dresden itself may be fine

I wonder how these will fare in Saxony. I presume it's an industry which will attract and depend on highly qualified foreign workers. Dresden itself may be fine, but parts of Saxony are sadly no-go areas for anyone remotely non-white, or even moderately liberal. It's a really brain-damaged region outside of Dresden and Leipzig, and even those cities are not exactly welcoming examples of diversity. Given a historic chance of prosperity, I think odds are eastern Germany will shoot itself in the foot epically with this.

chmod775 4mo ago
> I wonder how these will fare in Saxony. I presume it's an industry which will attract and depend on highly qualified foreign workers. Saxony has had a decently-sized or large (by German standards) microelectronics sector for decades: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Saxony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Saxony As you'd probably guess, they're mostly situated around Leipzig and Dresden.
- jijijijij 4mo ago
  I know about the historic connection, but that doesn't change the political/cultural climate in the area. As a matter of fact, the chairman of Silicon Saxony is concerned as well: https://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2024-02/afd-sachsen-silicon-saxony-fachkraefte-dirk-roehrborn https://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2024-02/afd-sachsen-silicon-s... Not to mention federal politicians doing their best to kill the German economy and motivation to work at all, it's quite hard to imagine why any foreign engineer would chose to move to Saxony of all places. Have you been to the countryside in the Bundesland? It's bad. Neonazi and racism all over the place. Literally visible to the casual observer, you don't even have to talk to anyone. T-shirts, stickers, graffiti, stupid notices, ... people there don't hide it.
  - NonHyloMorph 4mo ago
    Dresden and especially Leipzig are quite nice though - lots of culture, music and art. Also close to Berlin. It's not exactly like you would have to travel through the countryside by carriage to get anywhere. I agree that the political and cultural situation outside the cities there is sad though.
    - jijijijij 4mo ago
      I am frequently in Leipzig, it's indeed a very nice city. But it's also immediately obvious people with a (visible) migration background are a smaller minority than elsewhere (which is backed by stats). So for a lived experience, I would strongly suggest talking to those minorities. The reports I heard speak of a lot of casual racism. While you don't have to travel by carriage, you may even use the airport, avoiding the Umland is still an alienating and saddening state of affairs you can hardly call acceptable. For example, Saxony has absolutely beautiful nature along the Elbsandsteingebirge/Sächsische Schweiz, but those areas are also notoriously hot spots of the violent far right (e.g. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinheads_S%C3%A4chsische_Schweiz https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinheads_S%C3%A4chsische_Schw...). For me it felt moderately dangerous, as a white person. As an Indian, are you gonna join your colleagues on "workation" there, are you gonna bring up your worries? It's all fine, bro, racism in Saxony is all Wessi propaganda, bro. Just avoid leaving the safe zones.
      - NonHyloMorph 3mo ago
        I don't disagree and I don't think think that it's a good state of affairs. Whether acceptable is a legitimate category here i have some doubts about. There is definetly people that do not accept the status quo there (for good reasons) and try to become acively engaged in doing something about it. To state that it is not acceptable kinda evokes the image of some higher force that intervenes and changes the situation; idk seems weird. Would be nice if the xenophopic and far right resentfull mindset would stop holding it's grasp over such huge portions of the population. (Globally, too)
        jijijijij 3mo ago
        > To state that it is not acceptable kinda evokes the image of some higher force that intervenes and changes the situation Yes, this higher force is morality and conscience. Going back to the original argument, Saxony isn't sponsoring these developments all by itself. It's a larger collective's effort. As a tax paying citizen, I am entitled to judge the situation and at the very least demand conditions for success, or ask for reallocation of resources to more fertile grounds. As can be seen in this thread, the people living in these regions feel zero accountability or problem awareness. Unsurprisingly you even see the common "How dare you call us Nazis, we're just against multiculturalism and anything woke", ironically proving the point: Foreign engineers are not welcome. The foreign workers are not all going to be drawn from white Norway and Poland (what an idiotic assumption), but India and Asia etc.. They will make the landscape "multicultural". Not too mention the higher percentage of queer and other "woke" minorities in the tech sector, which are also "just" not welcome. After all, being not accepted at home may be another reason to seek shelter elsewhere. Saxony is not full of Nazis, just people who kinda prefer the authoritarian ethnostate. Wessis need to be more accepting of the fact Pride parades are cancelled. And did you know, statistically you are far more likely to die by other means, than a hate crime in Saxony! Quite frankly, you can't get to them (reactionary idiots) through rational discussion. It's been tried over and over again. We don't know how to do it, but talking to them isn't it. Meeting them with brainrot TikTok, seems to be somewhat effective (see Linke campaign), but in the end the simplistic answers win social media and the right got a natural edge there. They are living in informational bubbles and, in the East, due to liberal people leaving/fleeing (no judgement), these bubbles become lived realities. Worth noting: The high AfD turnouts are likely due to demographics, population density is really, really low across the east. Self-fulfilling prophecy. Of course there is historic baggage, too, but it's not just the old fucks, so at last let's start putting accountability where it belongs. The people there need to change, if they want the economic prosperity they feel entitled to. Rainald Grebe's "Brandenburg" is 20 years old: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uellmynA34U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uellmynA34U And yes, some of this entitlement and mental retardation is also rapidly growing in the West. All of Germany is very sick, geriatric, mismanaged and racing towards precarious inequality. Whatever the East is cooking is not the solution, so let's not call it a virtue.
1718627440 4mo ago
> but parts of Saxony are sadly no-go areas for anyone remotely non-white Which is of course exaggerated as usually and if you are referring to the AFD, my take is that the focus on the eastern part is just cope by the western part, they are rising the same in the western part, the eastern is just ahead of the curve. This is very much a problem of the complete country. If the administration(s) manage to bring back the economy, than the AFD will also go away, if they don't then this will be the far bigger issue for any industry rather than the public perception of the workers. > I think odds are eastern Germany will shoot itself in the foot epically with this. How are they shooting themself in the foot, by investing into semiconductors? Even if it eventually fails, how would this be worse, then not having done anything? Also the odds of this failing (like the one in Magdeburg) are rather small. This is the news that the construction is finished, and it is a new module in an already existing factory of an already existing company in exactly this place. I don't believe the company is going to axe it, AFTER the factory is built and the costs were spent. This doesn't make any sense.
- jijijijij 4mo ago
  > Which is of course exaggerated as usually and if you are referring to the AFD, my take is that the focus on the eastern part is just cope by the western part, they are rising the same in the western part, the eastern is just ahead of the curve. Sure buddy. https://www.raa-sachsen.de/support/statistik/statistiken/rechtsmotivierte-rassistische-und-antisemitische-gewalt-in-sachsen-2024-9433 https://www.raa-sachsen.de/support/statistik/statistiken/rec... There is a reason, every young person with half a brain moves to Leipzig/Dresden, or leaves Saxony completely. Cope...The problem with right wing extremism in the area predates the AfD, Saxony was always in the top three for right wing hate crimes. Maybe read criminal stats or Verfassungsschutzberichte instead of crying injustice. Dude, you can't blame lack of decency and empathy on the economy forever... And it won't get better by ignoring shit feeling entitled to outside help fixing your mess. > How are they shooting themself in the foot, by investing into semiconductors? Maybe read the comment you replied to. The investment into semiconductors is the great chance for prosperity, reactionary politics and xenophobia how they ruin it. Public perception is already brilliant: https://www.fr.de/politik/vorsicht-ostdeutschland-11150062.html https://www.fr.de/politik/vorsicht-ostdeutschland-11150062.h...
deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]

chmod775 4mo ago

> I wonder how these will fare in Saxony. I presume it's an industry which will attract and depend on highly qualified foreign workers. Saxony has had a decently-sized or large (by German standards) microelectronics sector for decades: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Saxony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silicon_Saxony As you'd probably guess, they're mostly situated around Leipzig and Dresden.

jijijijij 4mo ago
I know about the historic connection, but that doesn't change the political/cultural climate in the area. As a matter of fact, the chairman of Silicon Saxony is concerned as well: https://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2024-02/afd-sachsen-silicon-saxony-fachkraefte-dirk-roehrborn https://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2024-02/afd-sachsen-silicon-s... Not to mention federal politicians doing their best to kill the German economy and motivation to work at all, it's quite hard to imagine why any foreign engineer would chose to move to Saxony of all places. Have you been to the countryside in the Bundesland? It's bad. Neonazi and racism all over the place. Literally visible to the casual observer, you don't even have to talk to anyone. T-shirts, stickers, graffiti, stupid notices, ... people there don't hide it.
- NonHyloMorph 4mo ago
  Dresden and especially Leipzig are quite nice though - lots of culture, music and art. Also close to Berlin. It's not exactly like you would have to travel through the countryside by carriage to get anywhere. I agree that the political and cultural situation outside the cities there is sad though.
  - jijijijij 4mo ago
    I am frequently in Leipzig, it's indeed a very nice city. But it's also immediately obvious people with a (visible) migration background are a smaller minority than elsewhere (which is backed by stats). So for a lived experience, I would strongly suggest talking to those minorities. The reports I heard speak of a lot of casual racism. While you don't have to travel by carriage, you may even use the airport, avoiding the Umland is still an alienating and saddening state of affairs you can hardly call acceptable. For example, Saxony has absolutely beautiful nature along the Elbsandsteingebirge/Sächsische Schweiz, but those areas are also notoriously hot spots of the violent far right (e.g. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinheads_S%C3%A4chsische_Schweiz https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skinheads_S%C3%A4chsische_Schw...). For me it felt moderately dangerous, as a white person. As an Indian, are you gonna join your colleagues on "workation" there, are you gonna bring up your worries? It's all fine, bro, racism in Saxony is all Wessi propaganda, bro. Just avoid leaving the safe zones.
    - NonHyloMorph 3mo ago
      I don't disagree and I don't think think that it's a good state of affairs. Whether acceptable is a legitimate category here i have some doubts about. There is definetly people that do not accept the status quo there (for good reasons) and try to become acively engaged in doing something about it. To state that it is not acceptable kinda evokes the image of some higher force that intervenes and changes the situation; idk seems weird. Would be nice if the xenophopic and far right resentfull mindset would stop holding it's grasp over such huge portions of the population. (Globally, too)
      - jijijijij 3mo ago
        > To state that it is not acceptable kinda evokes the image of some higher force that intervenes and changes the situation Yes, this higher force is morality and conscience. Going back to the original argument, Saxony isn't sponsoring these developments all by itself. It's a larger collective's effort. As a tax paying citizen, I am entitled to judge the situation and at the very least demand conditions for success, or ask for reallocation of resources to more fertile grounds. As can be seen in this thread, the people living in these regions feel zero accountability or problem awareness. Unsurprisingly you even see the common "How dare you call us Nazis, we're just against multiculturalism and anything woke", ironically proving the point: Foreign engineers are not welcome. The foreign workers are not all going to be drawn from white Norway and Poland (what an idiotic assumption), but India and Asia etc.. They will make the landscape "multicultural". Not too mention the higher percentage of queer and other "woke" minorities in the tech sector, which are also "just" not welcome. After all, being not accepted at home may be another reason to seek shelter elsewhere. Saxony is not full of Nazis, just people who kinda prefer the authoritarian ethnostate. Wessis need to be more accepting of the fact Pride parades are cancelled. And did you know, statistically you are far more likely to die by other means, than a hate crime in Saxony! Quite frankly, you can't get to them (reactionary idiots) through rational discussion. It's been tried over and over again. We don't know how to do it, but talking to them isn't it. Meeting them with brainrot TikTok, seems to be somewhat effective (see Linke campaign), but in the end the simplistic answers win social media and the right got a natural edge there. They are living in informational bubbles and, in the East, due to liberal people leaving/fleeing (no judgement), these bubbles become lived realities. Worth noting: The high AfD turnouts are likely due to demographics, population density is really, really low across the east. Self-fulfilling prophecy. Of course there is historic baggage, too, but it's not just the old fucks, so at last let's start putting accountability where it belongs. The people there need to change, if they want the economic prosperity they feel entitled to. Rainald Grebe's "Brandenburg" is 20 years old: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uellmynA34U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uellmynA34U And yes, some of this entitlement and mental retardation is also rapidly growing in the West. All of Germany is very sick, geriatric, mismanaged and racing towards precarious inequality. Whatever the East is cooking is not the solution, so let's not call it a virtue.

1718627440 4mo ago

> but parts of Saxony are sadly no-go areas for anyone remotely non-white Which is of course exaggerated as usually and if you are referring to the AFD, my take is that the focus on the eastern part is just cope by the western part, they are rising the same in the western part, the eastern is just ahead of the curve. This is very much a problem of the complete country. If the administration(s) manage to bring back the economy, than the AFD will also go away, if they don't then this will be the far bigger issue for any industry rather than the public perception of the workers. > I think odds are eastern Germany will shoot itself in the foot epically with this. How are they shooting themself in the foot, by investing into semiconductors? Even if it eventually fails, how would this be worse, then not having done anything? Also the odds of this failing (like the one in Magdeburg) are rather small. This is the news that the construction is finished, and it is a new module in an already existing factory of an already existing company in exactly this place. I don't believe the company is going to axe it, AFTER the factory is built and the costs were spent. This doesn't make any sense.

jijijijij 4mo ago
> Which is of course exaggerated as usually and if you are referring to the AFD, my take is that the focus on the eastern part is just cope by the western part, they are rising the same in the western part, the eastern is just ahead of the curve. Sure buddy. https://www.raa-sachsen.de/support/statistik/statistiken/rechtsmotivierte-rassistische-und-antisemitische-gewalt-in-sachsen-2024-9433 https://www.raa-sachsen.de/support/statistik/statistiken/rec... There is a reason, every young person with half a brain moves to Leipzig/Dresden, or leaves Saxony completely. Cope...The problem with right wing extremism in the area predates the AfD, Saxony was always in the top three for right wing hate crimes. Maybe read criminal stats or Verfassungsschutzberichte instead of crying injustice. Dude, you can't blame lack of decency and empathy on the economy forever... And it won't get better by ignoring shit feeling entitled to outside help fixing your mess. > How are they shooting themself in the foot, by investing into semiconductors? Maybe read the comment you replied to. The investment into semiconductors is the great chance for prosperity, reactionary politics and xenophobia how they ruin it. Public perception is already brilliant: https://www.fr.de/politik/vorsicht-ostdeutschland-11150062.html https://www.fr.de/politik/vorsicht-ostdeutschland-11150062.h...

deleted 4mo ago

[deleted]