6 ms·

I am a big fan of Vite. But I have zero clue what those other tools are. I swear to God, I just put my head down to do some work and all the sudden, frontend to

I am a big fan of Vite. But I have zero clue what those other tools are. I swear to God, I just put my head down to do some work and all the sudden, frontend tooling has evolved. I wonder if there is a push towards a "boring but works" stack.

beaker52 3mo ago
This is the latest emerging "boring but works" stack.
- mort96 3mo ago
  "Latest emerging boring but works" sounds like an oxymoron.
  - throw-the-towel 3mo ago
    Or sarcasm.
  - tshaddox 3mo ago
    So something can only be "boring but works" if it was created before today?
    - mort96 3mo ago
      Yes, it's not boring if it's the new hotness
      - tshaddox 3mo ago
        Okay, then how can something become boring? It needs to start as the new hotness? Does that imply that the people who use non-boring software are the ones who determine which things get to graduate to being boring?
        mort96 3mo ago
        More or less, yeah?
        SahAssar 3mo ago
        Yeah, boring implies that it is predictable, proven and mostly unchanging. In software those almost always come with age.
    - ragnese 3mo ago
      Unfortunately, yes. It's a backward looking metric, like how economists can only call a recession/depression after it's been X months of bad metrics, even if everyone living in the first month of one feels the economy going poorly. We'll only know if these tools are "boring but work" at some point in the future. The hope is always that "this time will be different". Maybe these tools are so awesome that they'll become a de facto standard and, therefore, "boring". It's JavaScript, so I'm not holding my breath, though.
jstnh 3mo ago
the other tools are for testing, bundling, linting and formatting. Previously you would use different tools from very different open source projects for these things, with different configurations, update cycles etc. Now it's all covered by one simple toolchain. Vite+ is basically the "boring but works" stack, while also being more performant and with less configuration required.
scrapcode 3mo ago
I guess I'm just an old man pumping my fist and yelling at the clouds at this point, but I think compartmentalizing every possible aspect of development and then making each one of those as complex as possible lead AI in the bureaucratic deterioration of the trade.
hiccuphippo 3mo ago
That's what I liked from Bun's proposition. A single binary that just works. Hopefully the others take notice.
- christophilus 3mo ago
  Honestly, I hate that Bun is vibe-coded and seems amateurish in many ways, but it’s still an excellent tool.
  - CrimsonRain 3mo ago
    so instead of looking at the result, you are complaining about (a minor aspect of) the process. Jarred is an excellent engineer. He'll deliver.
    - deleted 3mo ago
      [deleted]
mmusc 3mo ago
I'm currently experimenting with a stack combining assistance, ASP.NET Razor Pages, and htmx, specifically to avoid dealing with the complexities of the modern frontend stack. AI eliminates a lot of the tedium, grinding tasks, while HTML partials and htmx complement each other perfectly. Not having to manage frontend framework, SSR states is incredibly liberating. Sprinkle in some vanillla js and redraw specific parts of the page as needed... done
- DANmode 3mo ago
  Are you open to opportunities?
  - mmusc 3mo ago
    not at the moment :)
- bel8 3mo ago
  You're on a good path. While consulting, I have seen .NET + htmx in production, but it was an internal tool used by thousands of folks (HR system). The 1ms response times and quick browser rendering due to no JS bloat put a smile on my face. I have since been planning to give C# backend + htmx frontend a go for a CRUD demo.
bhouston 3mo ago
> But I have zero clue what those other tools are. The incorporated tools are actually really amazing: - vitest, an ultra fast test runner. After using a lot of others, including jest and node's built in one, I love vitest. - oxlint, replaces eslint but is compatible with its file format and ultra fast, since it isn't written JavaScript. I tried biome, but I found oxlint to have more rules and the eslint compatibility was nice. - oxfmt, replaces prettier and is faster since it isn't written in JavaScript. - rolldown, replaces rollup and is compatible with it but it is much faster since it isn't written in JavaScript. The above are my go-tos in new projects anyhow since they are killer good and fast.
- herpdyderp 3mo ago
  I wish Oxfmt supported plugins. Prettier's plugin API is one of the worst APIs I've ever worked with. I'm eager to switch to a different formatter with a better plugin API (and I need plugins).
  - pier25 3mo ago
    I was excited about Oxfmt until I tried it and found that it's mostly intended to be a Prettier replacement. Ugh.
    - notdefio 3mo ago
      I'm curious to know what you were hoping for. Are there features you're looking for in a formatter that prettier/oxfmt don't offer?
      - pier25 3mo ago
        I was hoping for something more flexible. I suppose the whole point of Prettier is that it's not flexible but I find 90% of the times the code is actually uglier when using it.
    - satvikpendem 3mo ago
      Try Biome then. But Oxfmt is still faster.
Tadpole9181 3mo ago
> Vite, Vitest, Rolldown, tsdown, Oxlint, and Oxfmt You already use the first, the second you should be using and has existed for years - it's a jest-compatible runner integrated to Vite. Rolldown is a part of Vite already (since version 8, alongside other implementing tools like lightnincss). The ox* suite are native replacements for eslint and prettier. The latter has existed for years. Both of them aim to be drop-in compatible soon. This is a boring stack. FWIR, prior to the purchase by Vercel (or was it Cloud flare?), Vite+ was going to be a convenient, no fuss, low movement way set up projects that they sold to businesses for funding.
- nicce 3mo ago
  > This is a boring stack. I think the boring stack would skip the need for most of these. That is 5 different tools to write TypeScript in order to get some HTML, CSS and JavaScript for things that are not covered by modern web standards. Not including the frameworks itself which mostly have the same goal.
  - nlarew 3mo ago
    That's a pretty disingenuous take on the purpose of TS and misses the point of having a stack in general. The tools actually cover a lot more than that. Yes, if your goal is to get HTML/CSS/JS in any form to a web client then you don't need this stuff. If your goal is to ship a web app that stands a chance of surviving multiple devs, production traffic, etc then you need more tools. Testing behavior (vitest), enforcing code standards (oxfmt and oxlint), optimizing network calls (e.g. tree shaking from Rollup), etc. all go beyond what you describe. This stack is as boring as it gets without literally using the tools it consolidates and replaces or dropping a requirement that necessitates them.
    - deleted 3mo ago
      [deleted]
- chrisweekly 3mo ago
  Cloudflare.
CodingJeebus 3mo ago
A "push" towards a boring stack? That won't happen because the hype cycle trends towards new tools like water down a river. But if you're looking, I can't recommend Rails enough in 2026. Built on web standards, it's quietly pushing the framework forward and is so much less maintenance than modern JS apps.
deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]
skybrian 3mo ago
I’ve bounced off Vite because I don’t see a big advantage over esbuild. (I also use Deno.) What do you find useful?
cadamsdotcom 3mo ago
Fear not, engineer! Recently some smart folks invented something called BackRub that’ll soon solve all your problems! Soon you’ll be able to find information in even less than time than it takes you to type a comment and out yourself as clueless!
johnfn 3mo ago
It's a linter, a code formatter, a tester, and a bundler. What exists in your "boring" stack that's more boring than that?
preommr 3mo ago
> I wonder if there is a push towards a "boring but works" stack. Yea, this. eslint -> oxlint (but in rust, and fast) prettier -> oxfmt (but in rust, and fast) webpack -> vite (...I have thoughts; but vite is popular enough so w/e) rolldown -> tsdown (ts support, but in rast and fast) jest -> vitest (works with vite) It's basically taking the last decade of established conventions and supporting ts, rewriting in rust for speed, and making it all interoperable.
ProCodeSoftware 3mo ago
I use oxfmt and oxlint, the first JS linter I've used. For a long time, I avoided Eslint due to how strict it was, but even though oxlint uses eslint, I've been ok using it. I haven't used vitest before though. And I think Webpack should be discontinued by now, because Vite has replaced it in every way. Maybe to get other projects to switch, they should make a Webpack-to-Vite migration script.

beaker52 3mo ago

This is the latest emerging "boring but works" stack.

mort96 3mo ago
"Latest emerging boring but works" sounds like an oxymoron.
- throw-the-towel 3mo ago
  Or sarcasm.
- tshaddox 3mo ago
  So something can only be "boring but works" if it was created before today?
  - mort96 3mo ago
    Yes, it's not boring if it's the new hotness
    - tshaddox 3mo ago
      Okay, then how can something become boring? It needs to start as the new hotness? Does that imply that the people who use non-boring software are the ones who determine which things get to graduate to being boring?
      - mort96 3mo ago
        More or less, yeah?
      - SahAssar 3mo ago
        Yeah, boring implies that it is predictable, proven and mostly unchanging. In software those almost always come with age.
  - ragnese 3mo ago
    Unfortunately, yes. It's a backward looking metric, like how economists can only call a recession/depression after it's been X months of bad metrics, even if everyone living in the first month of one feels the economy going poorly. We'll only know if these tools are "boring but work" at some point in the future. The hope is always that "this time will be different". Maybe these tools are so awesome that they'll become a de facto standard and, therefore, "boring". It's JavaScript, so I'm not holding my breath, though.

jstnh 3mo ago

the other tools are for testing, bundling, linting and formatting. Previously you would use different tools from very different open source projects for these things, with different configurations, update cycles etc. Now it's all covered by one simple toolchain. Vite+ is basically the "boring but works" stack, while also being more performant and with less configuration required.

scrapcode 3mo ago

I guess I'm just an old man pumping my fist and yelling at the clouds at this point, but I think compartmentalizing every possible aspect of development and then making each one of those as complex as possible lead AI in the bureaucratic deterioration of the trade.

hiccuphippo 3mo ago

That's what I liked from Bun's proposition. A single binary that just works. Hopefully the others take notice.

christophilus 3mo ago
Honestly, I hate that Bun is vibe-coded and seems amateurish in many ways, but it’s still an excellent tool.
- CrimsonRain 3mo ago
  so instead of looking at the result, you are complaining about (a minor aspect of) the process. Jarred is an excellent engineer. He'll deliver.
  - deleted 3mo ago
    [deleted]

mmusc 3mo ago

I'm currently experimenting with a stack combining assistance, ASP.NET Razor Pages, and htmx, specifically to avoid dealing with the complexities of the modern frontend stack. AI eliminates a lot of the tedium, grinding tasks, while HTML partials and htmx complement each other perfectly. Not having to manage frontend framework, SSR states is incredibly liberating. Sprinkle in some vanillla js and redraw specific parts of the page as needed... done

DANmode 3mo ago
Are you open to opportunities?
- mmusc 3mo ago
  not at the moment :)
bel8 3mo ago
You're on a good path. While consulting, I have seen .NET + htmx in production, but it was an internal tool used by thousands of folks (HR system). The 1ms response times and quick browser rendering due to no JS bloat put a smile on my face. I have since been planning to give C# backend + htmx frontend a go for a CRUD demo.

bhouston 3mo ago

> But I have zero clue what those other tools are. The incorporated tools are actually really amazing: - vitest, an ultra fast test runner. After using a lot of others, including jest and node's built in one, I love vitest. - oxlint, replaces eslint but is compatible with its file format and ultra fast, since it isn't written JavaScript. I tried biome, but I found oxlint to have more rules and the eslint compatibility was nice. - oxfmt, replaces prettier and is faster since it isn't written in JavaScript. - rolldown, replaces rollup and is compatible with it but it is much faster since it isn't written in JavaScript. The above are my go-tos in new projects anyhow since they are killer good and fast.

herpdyderp 3mo ago
I wish Oxfmt supported plugins. Prettier's plugin API is one of the worst APIs I've ever worked with. I'm eager to switch to a different formatter with a better plugin API (and I need plugins).
- pier25 3mo ago
  I was excited about Oxfmt until I tried it and found that it's mostly intended to be a Prettier replacement. Ugh.
  - notdefio 3mo ago
    I'm curious to know what you were hoping for. Are there features you're looking for in a formatter that prettier/oxfmt don't offer?
    - pier25 3mo ago
      I was hoping for something more flexible. I suppose the whole point of Prettier is that it's not flexible but I find 90% of the times the code is actually uglier when using it.
  - satvikpendem 3mo ago
    Try Biome then. But Oxfmt is still faster.

Tadpole9181 3mo ago

> Vite, Vitest, Rolldown, tsdown, Oxlint, and Oxfmt You already use the first, the second you should be using and has existed for years - it's a jest-compatible runner integrated to Vite. Rolldown is a part of Vite already (since version 8, alongside other implementing tools like lightnincss). The ox* suite are native replacements for eslint and prettier. The latter has existed for years. Both of them aim to be drop-in compatible soon. This is a boring stack. FWIR, prior to the purchase by Vercel (or was it Cloud flare?), Vite+ was going to be a convenient, no fuss, low movement way set up projects that they sold to businesses for funding.

nicce 3mo ago
> This is a boring stack. I think the boring stack would skip the need for most of these. That is 5 different tools to write TypeScript in order to get some HTML, CSS and JavaScript for things that are not covered by modern web standards. Not including the frameworks itself which mostly have the same goal.
- nlarew 3mo ago
  That's a pretty disingenuous take on the purpose of TS and misses the point of having a stack in general. The tools actually cover a lot more than that. Yes, if your goal is to get HTML/CSS/JS in any form to a web client then you don't need this stuff. If your goal is to ship a web app that stands a chance of surviving multiple devs, production traffic, etc then you need more tools. Testing behavior (vitest), enforcing code standards (oxfmt and oxlint), optimizing network calls (e.g. tree shaking from Rollup), etc. all go beyond what you describe. This stack is as boring as it gets without literally using the tools it consolidates and replaces or dropping a requirement that necessitates them.
  - deleted 3mo ago
    [deleted]
chrisweekly 3mo ago
Cloudflare.

CodingJeebus 3mo ago

A "push" towards a boring stack? That won't happen because the hype cycle trends towards new tools like water down a river. But if you're looking, I can't recommend Rails enough in 2026. Built on web standards, it's quietly pushing the framework forward and is so much less maintenance than modern JS apps.

deleted 3mo ago

[deleted]

skybrian 3mo ago

I’ve bounced off Vite because I don’t see a big advantage over esbuild. (I also use Deno.) What do you find useful?

cadamsdotcom 3mo ago

Fear not, engineer! Recently some smart folks invented something called BackRub that’ll soon solve all your problems! Soon you’ll be able to find information in even less than time than it takes you to type a comment and out yourself as clueless!

johnfn 3mo ago

It's a linter, a code formatter, a tester, and a bundler. What exists in your "boring" stack that's more boring than that?

preommr 3mo ago

> I wonder if there is a push towards a "boring but works" stack. Yea, this. eslint -> oxlint (but in rust, and fast) prettier -> oxfmt (but in rust, and fast) webpack -> vite (...I have thoughts; but vite is popular enough so w/e) rolldown -> tsdown (ts support, but in rast and fast) jest -> vitest (works with vite) It's basically taking the last decade of established conventions and supporting ts, rewriting in rust for speed, and making it all interoperable.

ProCodeSoftware 3mo ago

I use oxfmt and oxlint, the first JS linter I've used. For a long time, I avoided Eslint due to how strict it was, but even though oxlint uses eslint, I've been ok using it. I haven't used vitest before though. And I think Webpack should be discontinued by now, because Vite has replaced it in every way. Maybe to get other projects to switch, they should make a Webpack-to-Vite migration script.