6 ms·

And all are useless because you can't use your mandatory bank or gov id app.

throwburn202605 4mo ago
Might be worth trying to get your gov to pin down the number of users or process to get gov id supported on any new platform. They likely wont specify 100k people or 10% of population or whatever email/petition but it at least records the requirement that other OSes exist and requires a process to support
karussell 4mo ago
Not useless. It is like the missing printer driver for Linux Desktop. It makes the experience ugly, but this is not the fault of the Linux OSes. Also the bank should not require apps (instead they can offer hardware key support or desktop apps) and in fact some - at least in Germany - offer a different authentication possibility. Also the app for the German ID is published on fdroid and does not rely on Google services.
- trinix912 4mo ago
  Good for Germans then. Slovenian banks won't let you use physical 2FA authenticators (for personal accounts and maybe even business ones at this point) anymore and will also require you to constantly update their stupid app (I've had to replace some otherwise good phones because the OS version wasn't supported anymore).
  - m-p-3 4mo ago
    Is that because of some regulatory requirements that they don't support physical 2FA?
- mr_mitm 4mo ago
  There are plenty of banks in Germany which offer over-the-counter services, if you prefer to do banking as if it's 1999. Most of the time, when people say it's impossible to live without a smartphone, it's actually only impossible to enjoy the conveniences of the internet without a smartphone (at least in Germany). Besides these rentable scooters, I can't think of anything that actually requires a smartphone. Sure, you'll miss out on a lot of conveniences, but I remember a time where that was the norm, so it's not like it's unreasonable.
  - przmk 4mo ago
    The comparison to 1999 is not entirely accurate. It doesn't take into account that most physical banking locations closed down. At least here in Belgium for example, you have to go far to find one, and it's often on appointment only.
  - paweladamczuk 4mo ago
    To add to the sibling comment, you are also ignoring the fact that in 1999 nobody had those conveniences, everybody was on equal ground. In 2026, if you handicap yourself by rejecting those "conveniences", you will be met by friction at every step - lower productivity at work, impatient looks from your family members etc.
  - arximboldi 4mo ago
    I recently bought my first smartphone, just went for a refurbished Pixel 8 with GrapeheneOS. To be honest, life without a smartphone was increasingly becoming a PITA. For example, Ryanair doesn't accept printed tickets anymore. A few clubs in Berlin (Tresor, Ohm, Oxi) have recently replaced their cloakroom by automated lockers that require a smartphone to operate. I've encountered a few gyms (2 in Spain, 1 in USA) that use live-updated QR codes to enter the gym. I did a project in the US and the client's office required a smartphone to open the door. In Spain it's common since the pandemic to have restaurants that only offer the menu as QR code. In fact, the pandemic was rough, as you had this system where you had to register with a QR code in most places. In many places they had a paper-registry that I could use, but often I would have to end up just using a friend's phone. Plus all 4G dumbphones are crap compared to older 2G models. The few that exist are built really bad, designed for old people, lack features like T9. 2G is out already in great parts of the world. To be honest, it saddens me deeply that the only way to live in society today involves carrying an internet-connected computer in your pocket. But it was just too much of burden... With GrapeheneOS the experience still feels somewhat acceptable and I get a somewhat similar feeling of control to what I get using NixOS on my laptop. But still...
    - UnreachableCode 4mo ago
      https://dumbermini.com/ https://dumbermini.com/ (LineageOS fork) https://commodore.net/callback/ https://commodore.net/callback/ (Sailfish OS) I too am a GrapheneOS Pixel 8 user. However, I am starting to realise even a screen this large is a huge source of distraction and dopamine fracking that I don't have the time or desire for in my life. So I'm looking at these even dumber options. I just want my calendar and email, and maybe Signal. No web browser or socials.
- int_19h 4mo ago
  The question of how useful or not it is is orthogonal to whether it is the "fault" of Linux. Users who can't use it because something they need just doesn't work won't change their minds because the blame lies elsewhere.
- deleted 4mo ago
  [deleted]
- tadfisher 4mo ago
  Does the F-Droid version of the app use hardware attestation?
- nextos 4mo ago
  SailfishOS can run lots of banking apps with an Android emulation layer. It's not perfect, but far from useless. Some use it as a daily driver. Depending on your country, it can be super doable. There are also lots of indie native apps.
- lbrito 4mo ago
  Probably not the case for most people. I'm living abroad and had to do something on the Brazilian e-gov platform. To log in I had to confirm my ID with an Android app. Not only is it exclusively on Play store, but it also refuses to install on any rooted device, so I had to boot an old non-rooted Android I had stored somewhere. I'm confident this is a very common experience worldwide, be it with gov IDs or banks.
  - fossman 4mo ago
    Are you saying the e-gov platform cannot be accessed using their website on a computer? So people without smartphones are excluded?
    - usr1106 4mo ago
      Recent headlines in Finland say that about 10% of the population are basically excluded from society with no access to important services.
    - lbrito 3mo ago
      Basically yes. Maybe you can access the "unprotected" version, which is basically useless as all the features necessitate an android/iphone device for 2fa.
- queenkjuul 4mo ago
  No, a phone that cannot run the apps that are required for me to attend certain events is in fact useless to me. It's not the fault of Linux mobile vendors that their product is useless to me, but that doesn't change the fact that it is indeed useless
RegW 4mo ago
I don't have a mandatory bank or gov id app. Where are you living?
- Grombobulous 4mo ago
  Apparently much of Europe is a strange banking dystopia. Perhaps the antiquity of the US banking system is finally coming in handy. I’ve still got my checkbook ready to go!
  - gpvos 4mo ago
    I'm still living in the Netherlands without a bank app. It's occasionally less convenient, but quite doable.
    - seba_dos1 4mo ago
      I'm living in Poland and the only thing my bank's application gives me that its website doesn't are mobile TOTP-based payments - and even then it just works in Waydroid, so I can still use it on a GNU/Linux phone if I want to.
- LtWorf 4mo ago
  In sweden it's not "mandatory" in the sense that it's illegal not to have it. It's just really really complicated to live without. Many services won't work at all.
goldenarm 4mo ago
I switched banks and made sure it doesn't require Android/iOS. Many banks propose FIDO2 + SMS, even bank of america does.
mrsssnake 4mo ago
Weird definition of useless.
JeremyNT 4mo ago
We're moving to a world where it makes sense to have one cheap locked down phone with the society mandated garbage apps on it, and another device that you use for real computing.
- alfiedotwtf 4mo ago
  Yes! But as a Plan B, why aren’t we emulating Android on these devices (or is it the Secure Enclave that’s the spicy bit that these apps need)?
  - hurutparittya 4mo ago
    Fortunately Google thought about this, so government ID and banking apps usually check that they are running on a sufficiently locked down and officially blessed phone through the Play Integrity API. This makes emulation basically impossible.
- wartywhoa23 4mo ago
  How about saying no to these "mandates"?
  - bigstrat2003 4mo ago
    We aren't given the choice, in many cases. For example I remember a poster here who was forced to have an Android or Apple phone because his kids' school required an app to pick up the kids after school. So his options were to get a big tech phone, or get in trouble for not picking up his kids. "Get the school to come to their senses" was, unfortunately, not an option available to him.
    - seba_dos1 4mo ago
      I've been using several GNU/Linux smartphones as my only phones for the past 18 years (with a short exception around 10 years ago when I carried an Android phone too as there was a gap on the market) so I can say from first-hand experience that it's really not such a big deal as everyone keeps painting it. For these kinds of odd needs where you have no hope to fight back you just launch Waydroid, use the app and stop the container afterwards. However, when you do fight back it often turns out that this "mandatory app" isn't actually so mandatory and in turn you contribute to making the world around you a bit better.
axus 4mo ago
I don't use bank or gov id apps, why are these mandatory? Country-specific?
codedokode 4mo ago
In my country, partially due to sanctions, you can access the bank via browser and receive 2FA codes on $15 dumb phone. Also why do you need bank app on your phone? Do you like to give money to random strangers on the street? Only scammers need money urgently. Also it is not secure to use the phone as a single factor to access the bank. I do not have any bank apps on my phone (it is not even connected to the Internet) and I have no problem.
- GoblinSlayer 4mo ago
  App can work as digital money without card reader, maybe even free, like bitcoin.
- RiverCrochet 4mo ago
  In a town nearby me (not really near me but within an hour's driving distance), sometimes I will see old people selling fresh fruit/vegetables in their front yard. They typically take cash, Cashapp, or Venmo. It's super convenient to be able to use Venmo in that situation. These are people I haven't met before.
  - codedokode 4mo ago
    I usually pay with cash. As a nice bonus, cash works even if there are mobile Internet shutdowns or blackouts and they cannot block the cash in your wallet unlike a bank account.
    - xorcist 4mo ago
      So, you live in a part of the world that still accepts cash. Good for you. That part is shrinking however, so you need a plan to cope with that situation sooner or later. Not doing business with others and growing your own food does not suffice as a plan for most people.
- RussianCow 4mo ago
  > Also why do you need bank app on your phone? Many banks gate features like mobile check deposit behind the native app. The nearest ATM is 20 minutes away from my house, so unfortunately I consider this feature essential.
dathinab 4mo ago
I mean gov id app really doesn't matter (for now) you can just use you id card which is credit card sized. (For now has things might change wrt. age verification.) But banking apps are a problem. It's not even about the main online banking (you can use a web portal) or storing a EC digitally in you phone (convenient but really unneeded). The problem is dump, misguided 2FA apps. E.g. credit card 2FA which already mostly required Android/iOS to work or even online banking login 2FA, transaction 2FA etc. with same requirement. Currently for the later I can still use other methods but for a huge amount of Banks where I live you can't use a credit card (reliably) without Android or iOS as "carrier" for an 2FA app.
janvlug 4mo ago
I oppose appdwang (although that can be hard, but until now I managed). Learn more about appdwang at https://appdwang.nl/ https://appdwang.nl/ (in Dutch).
GreenVulpine 4mo ago
Online banking is a thing. A heck of a lot more secure than an app on a certified android device passing play integrity but having last received security updates years ago and with a ton of privilege escalation exploits. Gov id? Just say no.
1vuio0pswjnm7 4mo ago
This bogus "justification" for not considering any alternative, non-corporate mobile OS on any phone makes no sense HN commenters will not let it go Most HN readers have multiple computers, including multiple phones There is no requirement that one has to run a closed-source banking or government ID app on the same phone as open-source apps, e.g., apps from F-Droid And it ignores countless people who do not and will never use banking or government ID apps I tested a banking app for depositing a paper cheque and it was incredibly convenient. At the same time, the app tried to make a plain, unencrypted HTTP connection to www.google.com I blocked these connection attempts and the app still worked, with plenty of phoney error warnings. I would not be comfortable leaving one of these apps installed on a phone that's charged, powered on and has a cinnection to the internet Every user is different but it makes no sense to argue on HN of all places that these closed-source banking apps are essential for everyone. Many HN users are never going to use these apps, and rightfully so
- 1vuio0pswjnm7 4mo ago
  "Smartphones" are not general purpose computers If a bank or government requires use of a "smartphone app" then this does not mean this smartphone must be used for any other purpose(s) Nothing forces someone to install the app on every smartphone they own These required apps do not prevent anyone with multiple smartphones from using alternative OS, i.e., not Android or iOS, on some of them
stronglikedan 4mo ago
Except they're not useless because a lot of people aren't mandated to use any such apps. (And I feel sorry for those that are.)

throwburn202605 4mo ago

Might be worth trying to get your gov to pin down the number of users or process to get gov id supported on any new platform. They likely wont specify 100k people or 10% of population or whatever email/petition but it at least records the requirement that other OSes exist and requires a process to support

karussell 4mo ago

Not useless. It is like the missing printer driver for Linux Desktop. It makes the experience ugly, but this is not the fault of the Linux OSes. Also the bank should not require apps (instead they can offer hardware key support or desktop apps) and in fact some - at least in Germany - offer a different authentication possibility. Also the app for the German ID is published on fdroid and does not rely on Google services.

trinix912 4mo ago
Good for Germans then. Slovenian banks won't let you use physical 2FA authenticators (for personal accounts and maybe even business ones at this point) anymore and will also require you to constantly update their stupid app (I've had to replace some otherwise good phones because the OS version wasn't supported anymore).
- m-p-3 4mo ago
  Is that because of some regulatory requirements that they don't support physical 2FA?
mr_mitm 4mo ago
There are plenty of banks in Germany which offer over-the-counter services, if you prefer to do banking as if it's 1999. Most of the time, when people say it's impossible to live without a smartphone, it's actually only impossible to enjoy the conveniences of the internet without a smartphone (at least in Germany). Besides these rentable scooters, I can't think of anything that actually requires a smartphone. Sure, you'll miss out on a lot of conveniences, but I remember a time where that was the norm, so it's not like it's unreasonable.
- przmk 4mo ago
  The comparison to 1999 is not entirely accurate. It doesn't take into account that most physical banking locations closed down. At least here in Belgium for example, you have to go far to find one, and it's often on appointment only.
- paweladamczuk 4mo ago
  To add to the sibling comment, you are also ignoring the fact that in 1999 nobody had those conveniences, everybody was on equal ground. In 2026, if you handicap yourself by rejecting those "conveniences", you will be met by friction at every step - lower productivity at work, impatient looks from your family members etc.
- arximboldi 4mo ago
  I recently bought my first smartphone, just went for a refurbished Pixel 8 with GrapeheneOS. To be honest, life without a smartphone was increasingly becoming a PITA. For example, Ryanair doesn't accept printed tickets anymore. A few clubs in Berlin (Tresor, Ohm, Oxi) have recently replaced their cloakroom by automated lockers that require a smartphone to operate. I've encountered a few gyms (2 in Spain, 1 in USA) that use live-updated QR codes to enter the gym. I did a project in the US and the client's office required a smartphone to open the door. In Spain it's common since the pandemic to have restaurants that only offer the menu as QR code. In fact, the pandemic was rough, as you had this system where you had to register with a QR code in most places. In many places they had a paper-registry that I could use, but often I would have to end up just using a friend's phone. Plus all 4G dumbphones are crap compared to older 2G models. The few that exist are built really bad, designed for old people, lack features like T9. 2G is out already in great parts of the world. To be honest, it saddens me deeply that the only way to live in society today involves carrying an internet-connected computer in your pocket. But it was just too much of burden... With GrapeheneOS the experience still feels somewhat acceptable and I get a somewhat similar feeling of control to what I get using NixOS on my laptop. But still...
  - UnreachableCode 4mo ago
    https://dumbermini.com/ https://dumbermini.com/ (LineageOS fork) https://commodore.net/callback/ https://commodore.net/callback/ (Sailfish OS) I too am a GrapheneOS Pixel 8 user. However, I am starting to realise even a screen this large is a huge source of distraction and dopamine fracking that I don't have the time or desire for in my life. So I'm looking at these even dumber options. I just want my calendar and email, and maybe Signal. No web browser or socials.
int_19h 4mo ago
The question of how useful or not it is is orthogonal to whether it is the "fault" of Linux. Users who can't use it because something they need just doesn't work won't change their minds because the blame lies elsewhere.
deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]
tadfisher 4mo ago
Does the F-Droid version of the app use hardware attestation?
nextos 4mo ago
SailfishOS can run lots of banking apps with an Android emulation layer. It's not perfect, but far from useless. Some use it as a daily driver. Depending on your country, it can be super doable. There are also lots of indie native apps.
lbrito 4mo ago
Probably not the case for most people. I'm living abroad and had to do something on the Brazilian e-gov platform. To log in I had to confirm my ID with an Android app. Not only is it exclusively on Play store, but it also refuses to install on any rooted device, so I had to boot an old non-rooted Android I had stored somewhere. I'm confident this is a very common experience worldwide, be it with gov IDs or banks.
- fossman 4mo ago
  Are you saying the e-gov platform cannot be accessed using their website on a computer? So people without smartphones are excluded?
  - usr1106 4mo ago
    Recent headlines in Finland say that about 10% of the population are basically excluded from society with no access to important services.
  - lbrito 3mo ago
    Basically yes. Maybe you can access the "unprotected" version, which is basically useless as all the features necessitate an android/iphone device for 2fa.
queenkjuul 4mo ago
No, a phone that cannot run the apps that are required for me to attend certain events is in fact useless to me. It's not the fault of Linux mobile vendors that their product is useless to me, but that doesn't change the fact that it is indeed useless

RegW 4mo ago

I don't have a mandatory bank or gov id app. Where are you living?

Grombobulous 4mo ago
Apparently much of Europe is a strange banking dystopia. Perhaps the antiquity of the US banking system is finally coming in handy. I’ve still got my checkbook ready to go!
- gpvos 4mo ago
  I'm still living in the Netherlands without a bank app. It's occasionally less convenient, but quite doable.
  - seba_dos1 4mo ago
    I'm living in Poland and the only thing my bank's application gives me that its website doesn't are mobile TOTP-based payments - and even then it just works in Waydroid, so I can still use it on a GNU/Linux phone if I want to.
LtWorf 4mo ago
In sweden it's not "mandatory" in the sense that it's illegal not to have it. It's just really really complicated to live without. Many services won't work at all.

goldenarm 4mo ago

I switched banks and made sure it doesn't require Android/iOS. Many banks propose FIDO2 + SMS, even bank of america does.

mrsssnake 4mo ago

Weird definition of useless.

JeremyNT 4mo ago

We're moving to a world where it makes sense to have one cheap locked down phone with the society mandated garbage apps on it, and another device that you use for real computing.

alfiedotwtf 4mo ago
Yes! But as a Plan B, why aren’t we emulating Android on these devices (or is it the Secure Enclave that’s the spicy bit that these apps need)?
- hurutparittya 4mo ago
  Fortunately Google thought about this, so government ID and banking apps usually check that they are running on a sufficiently locked down and officially blessed phone through the Play Integrity API. This makes emulation basically impossible.
wartywhoa23 4mo ago
How about saying no to these "mandates"?
- bigstrat2003 4mo ago
  We aren't given the choice, in many cases. For example I remember a poster here who was forced to have an Android or Apple phone because his kids' school required an app to pick up the kids after school. So his options were to get a big tech phone, or get in trouble for not picking up his kids. "Get the school to come to their senses" was, unfortunately, not an option available to him.
  - seba_dos1 4mo ago
    I've been using several GNU/Linux smartphones as my only phones for the past 18 years (with a short exception around 10 years ago when I carried an Android phone too as there was a gap on the market) so I can say from first-hand experience that it's really not such a big deal as everyone keeps painting it. For these kinds of odd needs where you have no hope to fight back you just launch Waydroid, use the app and stop the container afterwards. However, when you do fight back it often turns out that this "mandatory app" isn't actually so mandatory and in turn you contribute to making the world around you a bit better.

axus 4mo ago

I don't use bank or gov id apps, why are these mandatory? Country-specific?

codedokode 4mo ago

In my country, partially due to sanctions, you can access the bank via browser and receive 2FA codes on $15 dumb phone. Also why do you need bank app on your phone? Do you like to give money to random strangers on the street? Only scammers need money urgently. Also it is not secure to use the phone as a single factor to access the bank. I do not have any bank apps on my phone (it is not even connected to the Internet) and I have no problem.

GoblinSlayer 4mo ago
App can work as digital money without card reader, maybe even free, like bitcoin.
RiverCrochet 4mo ago
In a town nearby me (not really near me but within an hour's driving distance), sometimes I will see old people selling fresh fruit/vegetables in their front yard. They typically take cash, Cashapp, or Venmo. It's super convenient to be able to use Venmo in that situation. These are people I haven't met before.
- codedokode 4mo ago
  I usually pay with cash. As a nice bonus, cash works even if there are mobile Internet shutdowns or blackouts and they cannot block the cash in your wallet unlike a bank account.
  - xorcist 4mo ago
    So, you live in a part of the world that still accepts cash. Good for you. That part is shrinking however, so you need a plan to cope with that situation sooner or later. Not doing business with others and growing your own food does not suffice as a plan for most people.
RussianCow 4mo ago
> Also why do you need bank app on your phone? Many banks gate features like mobile check deposit behind the native app. The nearest ATM is 20 minutes away from my house, so unfortunately I consider this feature essential.

dathinab 4mo ago

I mean gov id app really doesn't matter (for now) you can just use you id card which is credit card sized. (For now has things might change wrt. age verification.) But banking apps are a problem. It's not even about the main online banking (you can use a web portal) or storing a EC digitally in you phone (convenient but really unneeded). The problem is dump, misguided 2FA apps. E.g. credit card 2FA which already mostly required Android/iOS to work or even online banking login 2FA, transaction 2FA etc. with same requirement. Currently for the later I can still use other methods but for a huge amount of Banks where I live you can't use a credit card (reliably) without Android or iOS as "carrier" for an 2FA app.

janvlug 4mo ago

I oppose appdwang (although that can be hard, but until now I managed). Learn more about appdwang at https://appdwang.nl/ https://appdwang.nl/ (in Dutch).

GreenVulpine 4mo ago

Online banking is a thing. A heck of a lot more secure than an app on a certified android device passing play integrity but having last received security updates years ago and with a ton of privilege escalation exploits. Gov id? Just say no.

1vuio0pswjnm7 4mo ago

This bogus "justification" for not considering any alternative, non-corporate mobile OS on any phone makes no sense HN commenters will not let it go Most HN readers have multiple computers, including multiple phones There is no requirement that one has to run a closed-source banking or government ID app on the same phone as open-source apps, e.g., apps from F-Droid And it ignores countless people who do not and will never use banking or government ID apps I tested a banking app for depositing a paper cheque and it was incredibly convenient. At the same time, the app tried to make a plain, unencrypted HTTP connection to www.google.com I blocked these connection attempts and the app still worked, with plenty of phoney error warnings. I would not be comfortable leaving one of these apps installed on a phone that's charged, powered on and has a cinnection to the internet Every user is different but it makes no sense to argue on HN of all places that these closed-source banking apps are essential for everyone. Many HN users are never going to use these apps, and rightfully so

1vuio0pswjnm7 4mo ago
"Smartphones" are not general purpose computers If a bank or government requires use of a "smartphone app" then this does not mean this smartphone must be used for any other purpose(s) Nothing forces someone to install the app on every smartphone they own These required apps do not prevent anyone with multiple smartphones from using alternative OS, i.e., not Android or iOS, on some of them

stronglikedan 4mo ago

Except they're not useless because a lot of people aren't mandated to use any such apps. (And I feel sorry for those that are.)