4 ms·

Whenever I see Box2D mentioned (the library by the same author as Box3D, obviously), I think back to this story from many years ago https://kotaku.com/this-guy

Whenever I see Box2D mentioned (the library by the same author as Box3D, obviously), I think back to this story from many years ago https://kotaku.com/this-guy-created-angry-birds-physics-and-all-he-got-was-5906541 https://kotaku.com/this-guy-created-angry-birds-physics-and-...

tikotus 4mo ago
I used to work at Rovio (the creator of Angry Birds). Everyone was telling the story of a talk given by Peter Vesterbacka, the head of marketing. When it was time for questions, a man from the audience asked what physics engine the game uses. Vesterbacka gives the correct answer, Box2D, to which the person replied with another question. "Why isn't it mentioned in the credits? And by the way, I'm Erin Catto, the creator of Box2D." To this Vesterbacka replied "Come talk to me after the show". Maybe that's when Erin was given the hoodie? Also, his name was soon added to the credits. But one thing amazed us all. It was impressive that the marketing guy knew which physics engine was used!
- gregsadetsky 4mo ago
  To the larger point, do you know if Rovio did support/pay Eric in any other way than that hoodie? Angry Birds generated $500M [0], supposedly. I would also not be surprised if the Rovio developers, designers, testers, etc. who worked on this game did not get a share of that $500M pie - I actually assume they didn't. But still, you know. Dare I say it - what about "fairness"? :-) [0] https://gameworldobserver.com/2023/02/28/angry-birds-2-revenue-500-million-rovio https://gameworldobserver.com/2023/02/28/angry-birds-2-reven...
  - sosodev 4mo ago
    I find it odd how we frame fairness in regards to open source software. He licensed his software as MIT. It says anyone can you use it without owing the author anything. So how is it unfair? To be clear, I think that open source maintainers deserve much more, but I don't understand why we rarely inspect the licenses as the source of the problem.
    - nananana9 4mo ago
      Well there's this little pesky thing in the MIT license: The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software. That's what he was asking for, a mention in the credits.
      - sosodev 4mo ago
        He got his name in the credits. The question was if he is owed anything else. The contract he created says he was not. I’m simply suggesting he might need a different contract.
        singpolyma3 4mo ago
        Only if he wants to force something different. Which it seems he does not.
        adamhartenz 4mo ago
        I bet if you caught a homerun ball in a baseball game, you wouldn't give it to the kid next to you because "I don't owe the kid anything".
        deleted 4mo ago
        [deleted]
        gamblor956 4mo ago
        Depends on what the little kid intends to do with it. A lot of them collect MLB baseballs to sell them for cash.
        MisterTea 4mo ago
        > A lot of them collect MLB baseballs to sell them for cash. You have evidence of this? Because it would be my first guess that the parent coerces their child to sell the ball.
  - maccard 4mo ago
    Box2d is open source. For better or for worse, Rovio are entitled to use it.
  - tikotus 4mo ago
    I don't know enough to give an answer. But I also wonder if Unity, using Box2D to empower games generating billions, paid him anything.
  - raincole 4mo ago
    Personally, I define fairness as being able to use a piece of code however the license permitted. "Kindness" might be a better word.
    - left-struck 4mo ago
      I think you’re confusing something being permissible with something being fair
  - qwery 4mo ago
    > I would also not be surprised if the [staff] on this game did not get a share of that $500M pie That's almost certainly the case, yes. Anything like royalties / residuals is pretty much unheard of in gamedev. You do the work, you do the crunch, you don't talk about conditions, you don't talk about pay, you are actively hostile towards the 'U' word, your boss _________ ____ __ _____. For your service, you get the chance to be in the credits, provided your service continues after going "gold"[0], of course. Then you get laid off which is actually a win because you get to leave the company without getting blacklisted. Please forgive the gentle hyperbole, it's illustrative. The situation may have improved (slightly)[1] with ~actors as SAG-AFTRA was a growing influence in the industry some years ago. I'm a bit out of the loop on that side of things, though. [0] not that anyone ships after going gold anymore [1] improved slightly relative to "I'm the voice of Niko Bellic and I got paid in Famista cassettes" -- no this is not a true story, I'm actually not even a voice actor.
- protocolture 4mo ago
  >But one thing amazed us all. It was impressive that the marketing guy knew which physics engine was used! Yeah that was my immediate take away.

tikotus 4mo ago

I used to work at Rovio (the creator of Angry Birds). Everyone was telling the story of a talk given by Peter Vesterbacka, the head of marketing. When it was time for questions, a man from the audience asked what physics engine the game uses. Vesterbacka gives the correct answer, Box2D, to which the person replied with another question. "Why isn't it mentioned in the credits? And by the way, I'm Erin Catto, the creator of Box2D." To this Vesterbacka replied "Come talk to me after the show". Maybe that's when Erin was given the hoodie? Also, his name was soon added to the credits. But one thing amazed us all. It was impressive that the marketing guy knew which physics engine was used!

gregsadetsky 4mo ago
To the larger point, do you know if Rovio did support/pay Eric in any other way than that hoodie? Angry Birds generated $500M [0], supposedly. I would also not be surprised if the Rovio developers, designers, testers, etc. who worked on this game did not get a share of that $500M pie - I actually assume they didn't. But still, you know. Dare I say it - what about "fairness"? :-) [0] https://gameworldobserver.com/2023/02/28/angry-birds-2-revenue-500-million-rovio https://gameworldobserver.com/2023/02/28/angry-birds-2-reven...
- sosodev 4mo ago
  I find it odd how we frame fairness in regards to open source software. He licensed his software as MIT. It says anyone can you use it without owing the author anything. So how is it unfair? To be clear, I think that open source maintainers deserve much more, but I don't understand why we rarely inspect the licenses as the source of the problem.
  - nananana9 4mo ago
    Well there's this little pesky thing in the MIT license: The above copyright notice and this permission notice shall be included in all copies or substantial portions of the Software. That's what he was asking for, a mention in the credits.
    - sosodev 4mo ago
      He got his name in the credits. The question was if he is owed anything else. The contract he created says he was not. I’m simply suggesting he might need a different contract.
      - singpolyma3 4mo ago
        Only if he wants to force something different. Which it seems he does not.
      - adamhartenz 4mo ago
        I bet if you caught a homerun ball in a baseball game, you wouldn't give it to the kid next to you because "I don't owe the kid anything".
        deleted 4mo ago
        [deleted]
        gamblor956 4mo ago
        Depends on what the little kid intends to do with it. A lot of them collect MLB baseballs to sell them for cash.
        MisterTea 4mo ago
        > A lot of them collect MLB baseballs to sell them for cash. You have evidence of this? Because it would be my first guess that the parent coerces their child to sell the ball.
- maccard 4mo ago
  Box2d is open source. For better or for worse, Rovio are entitled to use it.
- tikotus 4mo ago
  I don't know enough to give an answer. But I also wonder if Unity, using Box2D to empower games generating billions, paid him anything.
- raincole 4mo ago
  Personally, I define fairness as being able to use a piece of code however the license permitted. "Kindness" might be a better word.
  - left-struck 4mo ago
    I think you’re confusing something being permissible with something being fair
- qwery 4mo ago
  > I would also not be surprised if the [staff] on this game did not get a share of that $500M pie That's almost certainly the case, yes. Anything like royalties / residuals is pretty much unheard of in gamedev. You do the work, you do the crunch, you don't talk about conditions, you don't talk about pay, you are actively hostile towards the 'U' word, your boss _________ ____ __ _____. For your service, you get the chance to be in the credits, provided your service continues after going "gold"[0], of course. Then you get laid off which is actually a win because you get to leave the company without getting blacklisted. Please forgive the gentle hyperbole, it's illustrative. The situation may have improved (slightly)[1] with ~actors as SAG-AFTRA was a growing influence in the industry some years ago. I'm a bit out of the loop on that side of things, though. [0] not that anyone ships after going gold anymore [1] improved slightly relative to "I'm the voice of Niko Bellic and I got paid in Famista cassettes" -- no this is not a true story, I'm actually not even a voice actor.
protocolture 4mo ago
>But one thing amazed us all. It was impressive that the marketing guy knew which physics engine was used! Yeah that was my immediate take away.