3 ms·

So if I have my own server, with my own self-signed certificate, the government can still decrypt my traffic easily?

yk 14y ago
That depends. SSL (https) as it is currently implemented in browsers has the vulnerability, that you trust all certificates signed with any root certificate which are installed in the browser. So if you have a dedicated browser, where you have deinstalled all default certificates and installed only your private self-signed certificate, then SSL is (to the best of my knowledge) secure. Unfortunately your server has no way to check, which certificate the client sees ( and vice versa). Therefore it can not enforce the use of this specific browser. ( And this obviously does not work for a public website.) By contrast in the case of ssh the server and client each store a key for the specific connection. In this case your connection is essentially as secure as the key exchange. And if a mitm (Man in the middle) attack was already in place when you established a connection for the first time, then ssh will warn you if the mitm attack ends. ( Since in this case the server sends you a different public key than the stored one, which was corrupted by the mitm attack. )
- tlrobinson 14y ago
  Even if your browser has CA certs installed someone with a CA cert can only MITM your SSL connections, not passively sniff them, right?
  - yk 14y ago
    This depends on the meaning of "sniff them." If you mean by this, that the attacker needs some way to get active equipment into your data stream, then yes. But a sufficiently advanced attacker can of course always get his equipment into your data stream. For example by using directional antennas to spoof a wifi hotspot, or digging a hole and splicing it directly into the optical fiber.
    - tlrobinson 14y ago
      Yeah, I don't doubt the government could perform active attacks on more targeted individuals if they wanted to, but this mass collection of internet traffic that's supposedly happening is almost certainly passive.
      - deleted 14y ago
        [deleted]
sounds 14y ago
No. But no one can verify your certificate. The same principle that should make Verisign trustworthy (centrally recognized / audited trust authority) makes them vulnerable to nation-state tampering, or more specifically, eavesdropping.
- guessWhy 14y ago
  Why? Verisign merely signs your certificate. It does not even know your private key and hence also can't pass it to governments.
  - finnw 14y ago
    It is not necessary for the government to have your key; They can impersonate your site (using their own key) if they have the cooperation of the CA.
    - jlgreco 14y ago
      The trick is that if this were being done on a regular/wide basis, people would notice and have pretty incontrovertible evidence of it. I have no doubt they can do it, but it seems to be consigned to their bag of tricks for special occasions.

yk 14y ago

That depends. SSL (https) as it is currently implemented in browsers has the vulnerability, that you trust all certificates signed with any root certificate which are installed in the browser. So if you have a dedicated browser, where you have deinstalled all default certificates and installed only your private self-signed certificate, then SSL is (to the best of my knowledge) secure. Unfortunately your server has no way to check, which certificate the client sees ( and vice versa). Therefore it can not enforce the use of this specific browser. ( And this obviously does not work for a public website.) By contrast in the case of ssh the server and client each store a key for the specific connection. In this case your connection is essentially as secure as the key exchange. And if a mitm (Man in the middle) attack was already in place when you established a connection for the first time, then ssh will warn you if the mitm attack ends. ( Since in this case the server sends you a different public key than the stored one, which was corrupted by the mitm attack. )

tlrobinson 14y ago
Even if your browser has CA certs installed someone with a CA cert can only MITM your SSL connections, not passively sniff them, right?
- yk 14y ago
  This depends on the meaning of "sniff them." If you mean by this, that the attacker needs some way to get active equipment into your data stream, then yes. But a sufficiently advanced attacker can of course always get his equipment into your data stream. For example by using directional antennas to spoof a wifi hotspot, or digging a hole and splicing it directly into the optical fiber.
  - tlrobinson 14y ago
    Yeah, I don't doubt the government could perform active attacks on more targeted individuals if they wanted to, but this mass collection of internet traffic that's supposedly happening is almost certainly passive.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]

sounds 14y ago

No. But no one can verify your certificate. The same principle that should make Verisign trustworthy (centrally recognized / audited trust authority) makes them vulnerable to nation-state tampering, or more specifically, eavesdropping.

guessWhy 14y ago
Why? Verisign merely signs your certificate. It does not even know your private key and hence also can't pass it to governments.
- finnw 14y ago
  It is not necessary for the government to have your key; They can impersonate your site (using their own key) if they have the cooperation of the CA.
  - jlgreco 14y ago
    The trick is that if this were being done on a regular/wide basis, people would notice and have pretty incontrovertible evidence of it. I have no doubt they can do it, but it seems to be consigned to their bag of tricks for special occasions.