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Untraceable is your invention and obviously absurd and unworkable. No scheme is going to issue cards/tokens that can be traded between people, that's obviously

Untraceable is your invention and obviously absurd and unworkable. No scheme is going to issue cards/tokens that can be traded between people, that's obviously unworkable. Untraceable is for the consumers of the cards obviously, but in order to have trust they need to be traceable for somebody to verify them. The government can already determine who you are and already requires you to prove that at certain points, this is not a new invention of government it is required for governments to function.

dpark 4mo ago
It’s not my invention. It’s in the article. The physical card proposed contains nothing traceable. “They issue a card that says only one thing: "over 18". The card carries official seals, signatures, and anti-forgery features.” If you put an id on the card, then it’s a layer of indirection, but you’ve still handed them a unique personal identifier. Traceable credentials are fundamentally not privacy preserving, because that’s what traceable means.
- grey-area 4mo ago
  You're now arguing about something which isn't even in the proposal from the EU, it's a hypothetical from the article which attempts to draw a parallel with existing physical id (I guess to demonstrate to people that this already happens regularly with passports, ID cards, driving licenses etc). That existing physical ID is government issued, has an issue no, usually has a photo on it, often other biometrics nowadays, and is definitely traceable! Absolutely such a proposal cannot be fully privacy preserving, because at the very least it gives away your age, but also probably other identifiers.Just like your browser that you're using right now gives away a lot of information which advertisers use to fingerprint you like fonts etc. This sort of solution requires a central issuer/authority to know about the tokens, there's no way round that as there is no way round governments issuing passports if you want border control. The goal is that it'll preserve much better privacy than uploading passports etc to random websites, which I think it will.
  - dpark 4mo ago
    > You're now arguing about something which isn't even in the proposal from the EU Yeah. The HN link here is not to the EU proposal. It’s to this dude’s article, which is very clearly what I was responding to. > I guess to demonstrate to people that this already happens regularly with passports, ID cards, driving licenses etc No. That’s not what he was doing at all. He very explicitly was not talking about a passport or ID card. He was describing a physical analog to the digital proposal. > This sort of solution requires a central issuer/authority to know about the tokens, there's no way round that as there is no way round governments issuing passports if you want border control. You seem to have completely lost the plot. We aren’t discussing passports. No one is talking about anonymous international travel here.
  - NotPractical 4mo ago
    > A next version of the Technical Specifications for Age Verification Solutions will include as an experimental feature the Zero-Knowledge Proof (ZKP) solution From: https://ageverification.dev/av-doc-technical-specification/docs/architecture-and-technical-specifications/#71-zero-knowledge-proofs https://ageverification.dev/av-doc-technical-specification/d... The EU reference implementation is adding ZKP.
raxxorraxor 4mo ago
You are dismissing that government would be able to trace your online activity. And yes, that also with ZKP since government has connection info. So the zero in ZKP is wrong advertising.

dpark 4mo ago

It’s not my invention. It’s in the article. The physical card proposed contains nothing traceable. “They issue a card that says only one thing: "over 18". The card carries official seals, signatures, and anti-forgery features.” If you put an id on the card, then it’s a layer of indirection, but you’ve still handed them a unique personal identifier. Traceable credentials are fundamentally not privacy preserving, because that’s what traceable means.

grey-area 4mo ago
You're now arguing about something which isn't even in the proposal from the EU, it's a hypothetical from the article which attempts to draw a parallel with existing physical id (I guess to demonstrate to people that this already happens regularly with passports, ID cards, driving licenses etc). That existing physical ID is government issued, has an issue no, usually has a photo on it, often other biometrics nowadays, and is definitely traceable! Absolutely such a proposal cannot be fully privacy preserving, because at the very least it gives away your age, but also probably other identifiers.Just like your browser that you're using right now gives away a lot of information which advertisers use to fingerprint you like fonts etc. This sort of solution requires a central issuer/authority to know about the tokens, there's no way round that as there is no way round governments issuing passports if you want border control. The goal is that it'll preserve much better privacy than uploading passports etc to random websites, which I think it will.
- dpark 4mo ago
  > You're now arguing about something which isn't even in the proposal from the EU Yeah. The HN link here is not to the EU proposal. It’s to this dude’s article, which is very clearly what I was responding to. > I guess to demonstrate to people that this already happens regularly with passports, ID cards, driving licenses etc No. That’s not what he was doing at all. He very explicitly was not talking about a passport or ID card. He was describing a physical analog to the digital proposal. > This sort of solution requires a central issuer/authority to know about the tokens, there's no way round that as there is no way round governments issuing passports if you want border control. You seem to have completely lost the plot. We aren’t discussing passports. No one is talking about anonymous international travel here.
- NotPractical 4mo ago
  > A next version of the Technical Specifications for Age Verification Solutions will include as an experimental feature the Zero-Knowledge Proof (ZKP) solution From: https://ageverification.dev/av-doc-technical-specification/docs/architecture-and-technical-specifications/#71-zero-knowledge-proofs https://ageverification.dev/av-doc-technical-specification/d... The EU reference implementation is adding ZKP.

raxxorraxor 4mo ago

You are dismissing that government would be able to trace your online activity. And yes, that also with ZKP since government has connection info. So the zero in ZKP is wrong advertising.