3 ms·

We have people checking IDs at the doors of bars and strip clubs. And just like in those cases, what is to prevent someone who is of age giving their ID to som

We have people checking IDs at the doors of bars and strip clubs. And just like in those cases, what is to prevent someone who is of age giving their ID to someone underage?

efitz 3mo ago
A human glancing at an ID is not creating a log or transmitting every unique identity to the government. If you handed over your id, and the person checking it made a photocopy and handed it to a police officer who put it in a file in a briefcase they carried, you might feel differently.
- varispeed 3mo ago
  I remember last time I was in the club (decade or so ago), the bouncers were taking IDs and photocopying them and of course there was CCTV as well and police were visible outside of the club.
  - dgellow 3mo ago
    What country is that? Sounds insane to me
    - varispeed 3mo ago
      Certain dodgy part of London, UK. There are no clubs anymore there.
  - domh 3mo ago
    This only happens in the UK in clubs that have a history of violence or drug use (often leading to harms and death) and is a condition of a license. This is nowhere near the universal experience here for showing IDs for entry.
- fmobus 3mo ago
  aren't a lot of bars in the US scanning the id card with some purpose-made id scanner? Seem to remember reading about that, and it being the US I would guess that data gets very much stored/shared/molested.
  - technothrasher 3mo ago
    The scanner manufacturers proudly advertise that their systems dump the scanned IDs to a back-end database for storage and later use.
  - sejje 3mo ago
    Yes, they are. The systems aren't even expensive, and they have some features like they track people who have been trespassed, etc. However, you can buy fake IDs online, and the IDs are reportedly beating those machines. So if you trust the machine for age-verification, you might let in underage people.
- teddyh 3mo ago
  The future is now: <https://sf.gazetteer.co/why-do-these-castro-gay-bars-have-tsa-style-face-scanners https://sf.gazetteer.co/why-do-these-castro-gay-bars-have-ts...>
- scottmcmac 3mo ago
  [dead]
stubish 3mo ago
Absolutely nothing will prevent this. The situation is the same, and the same policing and laws about fraud and impersonation and 'enabling an underage person to...' will apply. What is interesting is that checking physical ID places a burden on the bar. Bars get fined or worse if they do a poor job, or even just take the fall if the kids are more capable than the bouncers. With these attestations though, the government is takes responsibility. The connection is attested by gov to be legal, the gov can't turn around and claim it was illegal. They can't go after you, just the person who enabled the fraud.

We have people checking IDs at the doors of bars and strip clubs. And just like in those cases, what is to prevent someone who is of age giving their ID to someone underage?

efitz 3mo ago

A human glancing at an ID is not creating a log or transmitting every unique identity to the government. If you handed over your id, and the person checking it made a photocopy and handed it to a police officer who put it in a file in a briefcase they carried, you might feel differently.

varispeed 3mo ago
I remember last time I was in the club (decade or so ago), the bouncers were taking IDs and photocopying them and of course there was CCTV as well and police were visible outside of the club.
- dgellow 3mo ago
  What country is that? Sounds insane to me
  - varispeed 3mo ago
    Certain dodgy part of London, UK. There are no clubs anymore there.
- domh 3mo ago
  This only happens in the UK in clubs that have a history of violence or drug use (often leading to harms and death) and is a condition of a license. This is nowhere near the universal experience here for showing IDs for entry.
fmobus 3mo ago
aren't a lot of bars in the US scanning the id card with some purpose-made id scanner? Seem to remember reading about that, and it being the US I would guess that data gets very much stored/shared/molested.
- technothrasher 3mo ago
  The scanner manufacturers proudly advertise that their systems dump the scanned IDs to a back-end database for storage and later use.
- sejje 3mo ago
  Yes, they are. The systems aren't even expensive, and they have some features like they track people who have been trespassed, etc. However, you can buy fake IDs online, and the IDs are reportedly beating those machines. So if you trust the machine for age-verification, you might let in underage people.
teddyh 3mo ago
The future is now: <https://sf.gazetteer.co/why-do-these-castro-gay-bars-have-tsa-style-face-scanners https://sf.gazetteer.co/why-do-these-castro-gay-bars-have-ts...>
scottmcmac 3mo ago
[dead]

stubish 3mo ago

Absolutely nothing will prevent this. The situation is the same, and the same policing and laws about fraud and impersonation and 'enabling an underage person to...' will apply. What is interesting is that checking physical ID places a burden on the bar. Bars get fined or worse if they do a poor job, or even just take the fall if the kids are more capable than the bouncers. With these attestations though, the government is takes responsibility. The connection is attested by gov to be legal, the gov can't turn around and claim it was illegal. They can't go after you, just the person who enabled the fraud.