4 ms·

I am in the industry too and I wish to get back to the academia sometimes. Sadly, CERN is not hiring Russians no matter what are their political convictions (I

I am in the industry too and I wish to get back to the academia sometimes. Sadly, CERN is not hiring Russians no matter what are their political convictions (I am pro-Ukraine, of course). But yes, as a Geneva resident, I was at the tunnels too (Alice), and I am always in awe every time I see this wonder of the modern world. Sometimes I wonder how actual humans could build this, much like people did for the pyramids.

PradeetPatel 4mo ago
>Sadly, CERN is not hiring Russians Is that even legal under Swiss discrimination laws?
- Cthulhu_ 4mo ago
  Try proving they're rejected because of their nationality. That said, CERN itself does have some official statements on the matter: - The International Cooperation Agreement has been terminated in 2023, following the invasion of Ukraine (https://international-relations.web.cern.ch/stakeholder-relations/states/Russian-Federation https://international-relations.web.cern.ch/stakeholder-rela...) - Their recruitment policy states they source among their member states except when they really really can't find someone to fill a position from there (https://careers.cern/recruitment-policy/ https://careers.cern/recruitment-policy/). I'm not sure if / how that works together with discrimination laws, however, discrimination is a different subject than nationality I think. I can't just work in the US, not because I'm Dutch but because of visum / labor / market protection / etc laws. And with CERN, added factors to consider are international funding, espionage, sabotage, etc. Some countries may decide to pull funding if CERN were to, for example, continue working with Russia or hire Russians. tl;dr it's a lot more complicated than discrimination.
- Symbiote 4mo ago
  I don't think CERN is bound by Swiss laws. It's an intergovernmental organization with sovereign immunities.
  - stuff4ben 4mo ago
    Is that a thing? Can an organization be given sovereign immunity? I thought that was reserved for actual countries?
    - Symbiote 4mo ago
      Yes, and it's not unusual for organizations like the World Health Organization, the UN or its agencies, the Red Cross etc. Examples: https://repository.cern/records/ypas9-j5751 https://repository.cern/records/ypas9-j5751 https://cds.cern.ch/record/1035110/files/cer-002693576.pdf https://cds.cern.ch/record/1035110/files/cer-002693576.pdf https://www.icrc.org/en/document/status-update-icrcs-legal-standing-explained https://www.icrc.org/en/document/status-update-icrcs-legal-s...
- atemerev 4mo ago
  They told you that CERN is an international org, and this is true, but it is also apparently legal under Swiss discrimination laws. I was declined a pure math position because of "knowledge security reasons" - for nothing but my passport. And it was legal, as discrimination laws apparently has many exceptions. I am not happy about it, but there's little I can do.
elashri 4mo ago
CERN stopped hiring non member or associate member states citizens for some time now. Except in very rare circumstances, This applies to US citizens as much as Russians too. You might disagree on that but we all know that it was political pressure.

PradeetPatel 4mo ago

>Sadly, CERN is not hiring Russians Is that even legal under Swiss discrimination laws?

Cthulhu_ 4mo ago
Try proving they're rejected because of their nationality. That said, CERN itself does have some official statements on the matter: - The International Cooperation Agreement has been terminated in 2023, following the invasion of Ukraine (https://international-relations.web.cern.ch/stakeholder-relations/states/Russian-Federation https://international-relations.web.cern.ch/stakeholder-rela...) - Their recruitment policy states they source among their member states except when they really really can't find someone to fill a position from there (https://careers.cern/recruitment-policy/ https://careers.cern/recruitment-policy/). I'm not sure if / how that works together with discrimination laws, however, discrimination is a different subject than nationality I think. I can't just work in the US, not because I'm Dutch but because of visum / labor / market protection / etc laws. And with CERN, added factors to consider are international funding, espionage, sabotage, etc. Some countries may decide to pull funding if CERN were to, for example, continue working with Russia or hire Russians. tl;dr it's a lot more complicated than discrimination.
Symbiote 4mo ago
I don't think CERN is bound by Swiss laws. It's an intergovernmental organization with sovereign immunities.
- stuff4ben 4mo ago
  Is that a thing? Can an organization be given sovereign immunity? I thought that was reserved for actual countries?
  - Symbiote 4mo ago
    Yes, and it's not unusual for organizations like the World Health Organization, the UN or its agencies, the Red Cross etc. Examples: https://repository.cern/records/ypas9-j5751 https://repository.cern/records/ypas9-j5751 https://cds.cern.ch/record/1035110/files/cer-002693576.pdf https://cds.cern.ch/record/1035110/files/cer-002693576.pdf https://www.icrc.org/en/document/status-update-icrcs-legal-standing-explained https://www.icrc.org/en/document/status-update-icrcs-legal-s...
atemerev 4mo ago
They told you that CERN is an international org, and this is true, but it is also apparently legal under Swiss discrimination laws. I was declined a pure math position because of "knowledge security reasons" - for nothing but my passport. And it was legal, as discrimination laws apparently has many exceptions. I am not happy about it, but there's little I can do.

elashri 4mo ago

CERN stopped hiring non member or associate member states citizens for some time now. Except in very rare circumstances, This applies to US citizens as much as Russians too. You might disagree on that but we all know that it was political pressure.