6 ms·

Ok, and? You can live with that if there are more important things to deal with. I've stared at ugly LLM code, that I had just had generated, and worked well

Ok, and? You can live with that if there are more important things to deal with. I've stared at ugly LLM code, that I had just had generated, and worked well enough for my purposes. (generally, some quick recursion into a nested python dictionary in order to dig out some property -- especially for linting or quick data analysis). And I wanted something better, sure, something a bit more readable ...but I just needed it to work well enough to recurse through a yaml file for config file linting, not be battle-hardened against every test case. So to deal with the mess, I shoved it in a pure function, threw a few basic sanity unit tests around it, put a comment with a disclaimer of "#this is LLM generated code, it is lightly tested, do not use it for anything truly load-bearing without a lot more tests" and I moved on to something else. Not everything has to be bulletproof.

csallen 3mo ago
You're on Hacker News. This is a site full of developers who are convinced that "proper software engineering" is 100% of what makes a business successful, and everything and everyone else is useless. You can't just waltz in here and point out that code in business is a means to an end and expect not to get downvoted.
- echelon 3mo ago
  Every bit of code written in the last 50 years is going to be meaningless. People need to get to grips with that fast. Distribution, relationships, processes, mindshare, marketing, and politics matter. Code is just ephemeral glue and implementation detail.
  - ses1984 3mo ago
    Not every bit of code is going to be meaningless. Just 99.999%.
  - slopinthebag 3mo ago
    Lmao. Have more respect for your elders, who wrote all the code that your ai psychosis is fuelled by.
    - echelon 3mo ago
      Every single thing around you was pioneered by people who are dead and forgotten. From the materials science of the clothes you wear, to the very language you speak. Get over yourself. We're all ephemeral, dead and recycled in the blink of an eye. Our species doesn't even clock on the geologic timespan. If you think your code (or any of your artifacts or possessions) matter beyond their immediate utility, you're mistaken. Work will either fall into disuse or be replaced. It's scaffolding for what comes next along a well-traversed path.
      - hexasquid 3mo ago
        Dr Manhattan
      - satvikpendem 3mo ago
        Look upon my works, the mighty, and despair!
      - slopinthebag 3mo ago
        I refuse to accept your existential nihilism. This mindset is not only toxic to the soul, but toxic to those who must suffer the effects of someone who only cares about “immediate utility”. What a depressing comment.
- Schiendelman 3mo ago
  As a technical product manager, this 1000%. It's just irrelevant how bad code is unless it impacts the business.
  - AdieuToLogic 3mo ago
    > As a technical product manager, this 1000%. It's just irrelevant how bad code is unless it impacts the business. If you are, in fact, "a technical product manager", I would hope you understand that "bad code" is identified as such specifically because it "impacts the business."
    - Schiendelman 3mo ago
      That is not how most engineers define bad code.
      - AdieuToLogic 3mo ago
        > That is not how most engineers define bad code. The engineers I have worked with most definitely define "bad code" as having intrinsic limitations and/or latent defects which impact successful system functionality/operation. Indicators provided to stakeholders such as yourself which support this assessment are, but not limited to: - the system doesn't work that way - the system lacks test coverage, so changes take longer - adding feature "X" is not feasible - there is no repeatable way to onboard team members - the backlog grows exponentially - that "one point task" is going to take a couple weeks All of the above impacts a business. It is up to you, the "technical product manager", to understand what your team is trying to tell you.
        Schiendelman 3mo ago
        Please stop being rude to me. I'm a human being, I'm a very experienced product manager and engineer (you can google my name, I'm the only one), and the way you are behaving sucks. Everything you're saying is true, sometimes. Assume I'm still right, and that you might be able to learn something from someone else.
- satvikpendem 3mo ago
  It's ironic because around 20 years ago here, people knew HN was (more) explicitly for startup founders and the comments reflected that, with much more discussion on getting customers than writing code.

csallen 3mo ago

You're on Hacker News. This is a site full of developers who are convinced that "proper software engineering" is 100% of what makes a business successful, and everything and everyone else is useless. You can't just waltz in here and point out that code in business is a means to an end and expect not to get downvoted.

echelon 3mo ago
Every bit of code written in the last 50 years is going to be meaningless. People need to get to grips with that fast. Distribution, relationships, processes, mindshare, marketing, and politics matter. Code is just ephemeral glue and implementation detail.
- ses1984 3mo ago
  Not every bit of code is going to be meaningless. Just 99.999%.
- slopinthebag 3mo ago
  Lmao. Have more respect for your elders, who wrote all the code that your ai psychosis is fuelled by.
  - echelon 3mo ago
    Every single thing around you was pioneered by people who are dead and forgotten. From the materials science of the clothes you wear, to the very language you speak. Get over yourself. We're all ephemeral, dead and recycled in the blink of an eye. Our species doesn't even clock on the geologic timespan. If you think your code (or any of your artifacts or possessions) matter beyond their immediate utility, you're mistaken. Work will either fall into disuse or be replaced. It's scaffolding for what comes next along a well-traversed path.
    - hexasquid 3mo ago
      Dr Manhattan
    - satvikpendem 3mo ago
      Look upon my works, the mighty, and despair!
    - slopinthebag 3mo ago
      I refuse to accept your existential nihilism. This mindset is not only toxic to the soul, but toxic to those who must suffer the effects of someone who only cares about “immediate utility”. What a depressing comment.
Schiendelman 3mo ago
As a technical product manager, this 1000%. It's just irrelevant how bad code is unless it impacts the business.
- AdieuToLogic 3mo ago
  > As a technical product manager, this 1000%. It's just irrelevant how bad code is unless it impacts the business. If you are, in fact, "a technical product manager", I would hope you understand that "bad code" is identified as such specifically because it "impacts the business."
  - Schiendelman 3mo ago
    That is not how most engineers define bad code.
    - AdieuToLogic 3mo ago
      > That is not how most engineers define bad code. The engineers I have worked with most definitely define "bad code" as having intrinsic limitations and/or latent defects which impact successful system functionality/operation. Indicators provided to stakeholders such as yourself which support this assessment are, but not limited to: - the system doesn't work that way - the system lacks test coverage, so changes take longer - adding feature "X" is not feasible - there is no repeatable way to onboard team members - the backlog grows exponentially - that "one point task" is going to take a couple weeks All of the above impacts a business. It is up to you, the "technical product manager", to understand what your team is trying to tell you.
      - Schiendelman 3mo ago
        Please stop being rude to me. I'm a human being, I'm a very experienced product manager and engineer (you can google my name, I'm the only one), and the way you are behaving sucks. Everything you're saying is true, sometimes. Assume I'm still right, and that you might be able to learn something from someone else.
satvikpendem 3mo ago
It's ironic because around 20 years ago here, people knew HN was (more) explicitly for startup founders and the comments reflected that, with much more discussion on getting customers than writing code.