3 ms·

> Healthy older adults (n = 123, average age 72.0 years, body mass index 25.8 kg/m2) completed three 45-min supervised exercise sessions per week for 6 months.

by yawnxyz 3mo ago

> Healthy older adults (n = 123, average age 72.0 years, body mass index 25.8 kg/m2) completed three 45-min supervised exercise sessions per week for 6 months. Participants were randomised to treadmill-based moderate-intensity training (n = 45), or high-intensity interval training (n = 41) or a low-intensity active control condition (n = 37), with individualised heart-rate prescription. Dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry was used to quantify body composition at baseline, and at 3 and 6 months. ok they didn't even include light/moderate weight lifting as another control, so this is a fairly poorly executed study basically it comapres hiit with treadmill walking in which case yes, it's slightly more useful, but hiit also causes a lot of damage in a lot of ways

fsloth 3mo ago
"hiit also causes a lot of damage in a lot of ways" Oh! I didn't know about this. Are there any references you could quote?
- tacon 3mo ago
  Just ask the orthopedists down the street from any CrossFit box. Or their journal articles.
  - fsloth 3mo ago
    Hiit training can use any type of exercise that allows quick change of pace. The routine in Tabata’s original HIIT work was just cycling. Crossfit afaik is a more complex affair than just cycling. So is the risk of injury due to specific movement or the interval quality of the movement?
  - anigbrowl 3mo ago
    I don't think this is helpful. Crossfit appears to prioritize speed and # of reps above all else, and is notorious for people doing difficult exercises with terrible form to try to hit those targets. HIIT certainly emphasises intensity of effort and prefers relatively short rest periods between sets, but not at the expense of proper form. eg when I think of cross-fit weight training or callisthenics I think of lots of snatching and jerking, with HIIT I think of moving slowly with form and trying to hold tension at the apex of the movement.
    - tacon 3mo ago
      If you want to do Super Slow, great, but that is the original HIT, High Intensity (Strength) Training from Arthur Jones of Nautilus fame. I just went to YouTube and searched for HIIT. I don't see any videos of "moving slowly with form" (which is exactly what Super Slow is built around - 10 seconds concentric, 10 seconds eccentric, one set to failure). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Slow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Slow https://youtu.be/2PdJFbjWHEU https://youtu.be/2PdJFbjWHEU
  - jimjimjim 3mo ago
    Don't conflate hiit with crossfit. Crossfit is just one (although well known) type of hiit. There are many other type of hiit activities without the training style of crossfit.
jr3592 3mo ago
> "but hiit also causes a lot of damage in a lot of ways" Please do explain this. Technically weight lifting (muscle hypertrophy) also causes "damage" but in a controlled an beneficial way.
- tdiff 3mo ago
  I would guess they mean hiit can traumatize e.g. joints or cardiovascular system, especially for the elderly.
  - jr3592 3mo ago
    Most people don't understand how important, even vital, proper rest is. Injuries are almost always the result of overuse and/or insufficient rest. HIIT itself is not dangerous, or even bad for you, if you spend the time to learn about it and how to incorporate into your life safely. If you're out of shape, and don't train regularly, go out and try HIIT you're going to have a bad time.
    - Fire-Dragon-DoL 3mo ago
      Could you provide some resources for learning?
  - yawnxyz 3mo ago
    yeah this is what I meant - as we get older we're supposed to move slower, and spend more time working on mobility and strength (moderate strength building, walking, and other movements like taichi and equivalent)
- knappe 3mo ago
  I really think you're being pedantic to the point of detriment. Runner's knee is a very well known condition in, wait for it, runners! https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/patellofemoral-pain-syndrome/symptoms-causes/syc-20350792 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/patellofemora...
  - 3mo ago
justradition 3mo ago
The hyper rationalist cult on HN has created a race to see who will be the first to claim "this is a fairly poorly executed study". It really impresses the crowd here if you ignore all limitations introduced by reality, and fail to clearly even assert the requirements that would result in an "adequately executed study." Bonus points if you finish your shallow skepticism by redirecting the conversation in the direction of your original preheld biases. Double bonus points if you fail to link to a study that both supports that preheld bias and meets your own standards for how studies should be conducted.
danesparza 3mo ago
light/moderate weight lifting is not "low-intensity active control condition" then?

by yawnxyz 3mo ago

fsloth 3mo ago

"hiit also causes a lot of damage in a lot of ways" Oh! I didn't know about this. Are there any references you could quote?

tacon 3mo ago
Just ask the orthopedists down the street from any CrossFit box. Or their journal articles.
- fsloth 3mo ago
  Hiit training can use any type of exercise that allows quick change of pace. The routine in Tabata’s original HIIT work was just cycling. Crossfit afaik is a more complex affair than just cycling. So is the risk of injury due to specific movement or the interval quality of the movement?
- anigbrowl 3mo ago
  I don't think this is helpful. Crossfit appears to prioritize speed and # of reps above all else, and is notorious for people doing difficult exercises with terrible form to try to hit those targets. HIIT certainly emphasises intensity of effort and prefers relatively short rest periods between sets, but not at the expense of proper form. eg when I think of cross-fit weight training or callisthenics I think of lots of snatching and jerking, with HIIT I think of moving slowly with form and trying to hold tension at the apex of the movement.
  - tacon 3mo ago
    If you want to do Super Slow, great, but that is the original HIT, High Intensity (Strength) Training from Arthur Jones of Nautilus fame. I just went to YouTube and searched for HIIT. I don't see any videos of "moving slowly with form" (which is exactly what Super Slow is built around - 10 seconds concentric, 10 seconds eccentric, one set to failure). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Slow https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Slow https://youtu.be/2PdJFbjWHEU https://youtu.be/2PdJFbjWHEU
- jimjimjim 3mo ago
  Don't conflate hiit with crossfit. Crossfit is just one (although well known) type of hiit. There are many other type of hiit activities without the training style of crossfit.

jr3592 3mo ago

> "but hiit also causes a lot of damage in a lot of ways" Please do explain this. Technically weight lifting (muscle hypertrophy) also causes "damage" but in a controlled an beneficial way.

tdiff 3mo ago
I would guess they mean hiit can traumatize e.g. joints or cardiovascular system, especially for the elderly.
- jr3592 3mo ago
  Most people don't understand how important, even vital, proper rest is. Injuries are almost always the result of overuse and/or insufficient rest. HIIT itself is not dangerous, or even bad for you, if you spend the time to learn about it and how to incorporate into your life safely. If you're out of shape, and don't train regularly, go out and try HIIT you're going to have a bad time.
  - Fire-Dragon-DoL 3mo ago
    Could you provide some resources for learning?
- yawnxyz 3mo ago
  yeah this is what I meant - as we get older we're supposed to move slower, and spend more time working on mobility and strength (moderate strength building, walking, and other movements like taichi and equivalent)
knappe 3mo ago
I really think you're being pedantic to the point of detriment. Runner's knee is a very well known condition in, wait for it, runners! https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/patellofemoral-pain-syndrome/symptoms-causes/syc-20350792 https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/patellofemora...
- 3mo ago

justradition 3mo ago

The hyper rationalist cult on HN has created a race to see who will be the first to claim "this is a fairly poorly executed study". It really impresses the crowd here if you ignore all limitations introduced by reality, and fail to clearly even assert the requirements that would result in an "adequately executed study." Bonus points if you finish your shallow skepticism by redirecting the conversation in the direction of your original preheld biases. Double bonus points if you fail to link to a study that both supports that preheld bias and meets your own standards for how studies should be conducted.

danesparza 3mo ago

light/moderate weight lifting is not "low-intensity active control condition" then?