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Maybe with older adults the baseline goal should be to merely maintain or slow the loss of the muscle, mobility, and cardiovascular capacity they already have?

Maybe with older adults the baseline goal should be to merely maintain or slow the loss of the muscle, mobility, and cardiovascular capacity they already have? It's not realistic for a 50 year old to think they could build muscle year-after-year for the next 30 years.

vidarh 4mo ago
For the next 30 years, probably not, but mostly because you can get really strong really quickly, as most adults are really weak. It's not that unusual for people to pick up e.g. powerlifting past 50 and still get to levels well beyond what most younger adults can lift. I'm 51, and recently back into powerlifting after many years out of it, and I certainly expect to build back muscle and improving week over week for many years before I can't stem the decline any more, as long as avoid injury or health issues that takes me out of the gym - avoiding time off exercise is the biggest challenge with getting older.
- username135 4mo ago
  The time off from exercise is not a bad thing; even when forced due to holidays and being sick, life et al. As we age, we need more of that rest time. For those of us on the back 9, its critical to avoid those injuries because they set us back.
  - bluGill 4mo ago
    The only problem with time off is it breaks habits. a couple days off and suddenly you haven't done anything for months.
  - vidarh 4mo ago
    Rest time of a couple of days is good. I'm not talking about that. But more than a week and you'll typically need to deload to avoid DOMS. More than a few weeks and it will start taking significant time to work back up, and a lot of injuries happens because people try to rush that recovery and add even more time to that. If you regularly lose weeks at higher age, it quickly becomes tricky to avoid tipping over into lasting decline.
    - nevertoolate 4mo ago
      Depends on the goal. If staying at a certain number is the goal yes, climbing two weeks back up will possibly take more and more time. If staying energetic and healthy is the goal the number becomes only one of the moving benchmarks. With that said I think doing some kind of workout even on vacation is important.
bitexploder 4mo ago
However, if you are a male and age 50 you can definitely expect to still build muscle up to 60 if you are diligent with your strength training. You can maintain mass 60-70. You do need a little more protein. I collected as much proven data and studies on this as I could: https://stealthgoat.com/building-muscle.html https://stealthgoat.com/building-muscle.html
- Fire-Dragon-DoL 4mo ago
  This was gold, thank you for linking it. I need to find somebody to monitor my form but I am not that far from doing what this post suggests! Over 60 you cannot build muscles anymore?
  - bitexploder 4mo ago
    I think over 60 you can, it’s just slow, hard, and requires high diligence. If I can make a recommendation, compound movements are amazing, but be careful with deadlift. There are many more practical exercises that don’t have so much injury risk. Volume and consistency win over heroic or ego lifts :)
    - Fire-Dragon-DoL 4mo ago
      Please do! I figured out consistency, but I think I can gain way more from my training that what I am currently getting. I do have a hard requirement of minimizing time while maximizing gain, so I do 1 hour weight lifting 3 times per week and two days of heavy cardio (I call it hiit, pushing my heart to 175-180 at times, but I suspect it's just very vigorous) 2 times per week. Minimum effort for maximum gains. I cannot stand "slow, long cardio". I do enjoy tracking and pushing my bpm
      - bitexploder 4mo ago
        That is pretty much the best way to improve cardio as well. There is some benefit to long slow cardio in that it induces the same mitochondrial growth and fitness improvement, but it requires more time. The injury risk is a little lower for low intensity work. Interval training is a proven quantity for cardio fitness as well, though. I don't think you can min-max cardio fitness much more than that. Mainly, just ensure you aren't doing anaerobic work (e.g. sprinting) if your goal is cardio improvement. But that is easy enough, if you really want to baseline it, you just run a mile all out and there are a bunch of calculators that are very good which give you good paces for VO2 Max / intervals. The goal is you want to sort of keep your HR elevated once warmed and stay in that high VO2 max zone sort of ending right at max HR on your final interval or two pushing yourself up to the limit. It ends up looking like the strength training wisdom at the end of the day. Do cardio. Make sure it is challenging and you aren't phoning it in if your min-maxing. Be consistent. For strength training, I think it comes down to what I captured in my blog post. For a given muscle, if you are challenging it and truly reaching 1 or 2 reps in reserve there isn't much else to do per set. Hit your desired training volumes and you are the happy place for time+gains. If the intensity is there and you are targeting your entire body at the right volume level every week it will come down to nutrition and other factors vs. what you are doing in the gym.

vidarh 4mo ago

For the next 30 years, probably not, but mostly because you can get really strong really quickly, as most adults are really weak. It's not that unusual for people to pick up e.g. powerlifting past 50 and still get to levels well beyond what most younger adults can lift. I'm 51, and recently back into powerlifting after many years out of it, and I certainly expect to build back muscle and improving week over week for many years before I can't stem the decline any more, as long as avoid injury or health issues that takes me out of the gym - avoiding time off exercise is the biggest challenge with getting older.

username135 4mo ago
The time off from exercise is not a bad thing; even when forced due to holidays and being sick, life et al. As we age, we need more of that rest time. For those of us on the back 9, its critical to avoid those injuries because they set us back.
- bluGill 4mo ago
  The only problem with time off is it breaks habits. a couple days off and suddenly you haven't done anything for months.
- vidarh 4mo ago
  Rest time of a couple of days is good. I'm not talking about that. But more than a week and you'll typically need to deload to avoid DOMS. More than a few weeks and it will start taking significant time to work back up, and a lot of injuries happens because people try to rush that recovery and add even more time to that. If you regularly lose weeks at higher age, it quickly becomes tricky to avoid tipping over into lasting decline.
  - nevertoolate 4mo ago
    Depends on the goal. If staying at a certain number is the goal yes, climbing two weeks back up will possibly take more and more time. If staying energetic and healthy is the goal the number becomes only one of the moving benchmarks. With that said I think doing some kind of workout even on vacation is important.

bitexploder 4mo ago

However, if you are a male and age 50 you can definitely expect to still build muscle up to 60 if you are diligent with your strength training. You can maintain mass 60-70. You do need a little more protein. I collected as much proven data and studies on this as I could: https://stealthgoat.com/building-muscle.html https://stealthgoat.com/building-muscle.html

Fire-Dragon-DoL 4mo ago
This was gold, thank you for linking it. I need to find somebody to monitor my form but I am not that far from doing what this post suggests! Over 60 you cannot build muscles anymore?
- bitexploder 4mo ago
  I think over 60 you can, it’s just slow, hard, and requires high diligence. If I can make a recommendation, compound movements are amazing, but be careful with deadlift. There are many more practical exercises that don’t have so much injury risk. Volume and consistency win over heroic or ego lifts :)
  - Fire-Dragon-DoL 4mo ago
    Please do! I figured out consistency, but I think I can gain way more from my training that what I am currently getting. I do have a hard requirement of minimizing time while maximizing gain, so I do 1 hour weight lifting 3 times per week and two days of heavy cardio (I call it hiit, pushing my heart to 175-180 at times, but I suspect it's just very vigorous) 2 times per week. Minimum effort for maximum gains. I cannot stand "slow, long cardio". I do enjoy tracking and pushing my bpm
    - bitexploder 4mo ago
      That is pretty much the best way to improve cardio as well. There is some benefit to long slow cardio in that it induces the same mitochondrial growth and fitness improvement, but it requires more time. The injury risk is a little lower for low intensity work. Interval training is a proven quantity for cardio fitness as well, though. I don't think you can min-max cardio fitness much more than that. Mainly, just ensure you aren't doing anaerobic work (e.g. sprinting) if your goal is cardio improvement. But that is easy enough, if you really want to baseline it, you just run a mile all out and there are a bunch of calculators that are very good which give you good paces for VO2 Max / intervals. The goal is you want to sort of keep your HR elevated once warmed and stay in that high VO2 max zone sort of ending right at max HR on your final interval or two pushing yourself up to the limit. It ends up looking like the strength training wisdom at the end of the day. Do cardio. Make sure it is challenging and you aren't phoning it in if your min-maxing. Be consistent. For strength training, I think it comes down to what I captured in my blog post. For a given muscle, if you are challenging it and truly reaching 1 or 2 reps in reserve there isn't much else to do per set. Hit your desired training volumes and you are the happy place for time+gains. If the intensity is there and you are targeting your entire body at the right volume level every week it will come down to nutrition and other factors vs. what you are doing in the gym.