3 ms·

American Pride Falls to 25-Year Record Low

everyone 4mo ago
Maybe education levels in USA are rising?
nacozarina 4mo ago
What has happened to my country disgusts me so deeply I am losing my will to live. The only thing to be hopeful for are the midterm elections and I feel like it is foolish beyond reason to expect that to become a magic wand. Hell is empty and the devils are all here.
- bestouff 4mo ago
  Hey, I understand you're appalled by the political landscape at home. But losing the will to live is too much, way too much. Find a shrink, talk to someone. You're not well, don't let that go worse.
- DougN7 4mo ago
  I’m disgusted too. But it helps to read some history and gain some perspective. Despite everything going on, this is still historically and pretty darn good time and place to be alive.
bm3719 4mo ago
Pride was once pretty much universally considered a sin, usually because it results in things like arrogance, lack of humility, and a general disconnect from the reality of one's own self. Nationalism often takes the form of pride and is encouraged to some degree by most governments, and now we have an entire month dedicated to that other kind of it. So, maybe passing peak pride, if that's what's occurred, isn't such a bad thing? A national humility month would probably be more psychologically healthy.
- etrautmann 4mo ago
  This is conflating so many different concepts under one idea of pride. Come on. Yes, humility is also important but it’s a false dilemma and meaningless.
- Ferret7446 4mo ago
  I don't disagree, but it seems like a dangerous thing to say coming out of Pride month.
urbsgpw 4mo ago
I mean, I kinda found national pride to be a funny concept, but maybe that's because I come from a place that's changed (depending on how you count) 6 different countries in the last 100 years. You guys on the other hand, even the libs/dems, had a version of the manifest destiny in your pockets, or so it seemed. And now one half (or on HN 95% of US users) of you are suddenly appalled with the state of things. To the outside world, however, not much other than theatrics, has changed.
- mcphage 4mo ago
  > To the outside world, however, not much other than theatrics, has changed. On the inside, it’s very different.
jameskilton 4mo ago
Don't ever let a Republican, and especially a Trump voter, complain about the current state of affairs. They voted for this, and have been voting for this for decades. They have two choices: own it and admit to themselves that they do in fact support fascism, or vow to never, ever again vote Republican or similar for the rest of their lives.
- palmotea 4mo ago
  > Don't ever let a Republican, and especially a Trump voter, complain about the current state of affairs. Likewise: Don't ever let a Democrat complain about the current state of affairs. They chose to run shit candidates that couldn't even win against a fool like Trump. They voted for this (in the primaries), and have been voting for this for at least a decade. They have two choices: own it and admit to themselves that they don't actually care that much about avoiding "fascism," or vow to never, ever again to vote for Democrats who can't win a "red" [1] state for the rest of their lives. [1] "Red" states are actually not that red. They only seem so "red" because the Democrats stopped trying to represent them.
  - OutOfHere 4mo ago
    They literally don't have any good candidates because it takes one or more of these to be at the top: 1. Already having power 2. Extreme wealth 3. Extreme corruption The system is broken, and the ones in power won't allow it to ever be fixed because it benefits them for it to stay broken.
    - palmotea 4mo ago
      > They literally don't have any good candidates because it takes one of these to get to the top: > 1. Extreme wealth > 2. Extreme corruption > 3. All of the above OK. So which of those categories did Obama fall into? I think yours is an over-cynical take that is in fact wrong. > The system is broken, and the ones in power won't allow it to ever be fixed because it benefits them for it to stay broken. The system is broken, but not in the way you describe. The partisan rank-and-file demand candidates that represent the partisan faithful, not an actual majority of the country [1]. They strongly prefer zealous evangelism fantasies and judgement over representation. It's stupid and foolish, and it's how we've gotten were were are. And a lot of Democrats have responded to Trump by getting worse, instead taking a reality check and snapping out of it. [1] And I'm not talking about some milquetoast centrism.
spwa4 4mo ago
I'm just amazed how high it is. Living in Europe, and reading "43% in the U.S. say they display the American flag outside their home" ... wtf. Is there any European country that has 1% do that?
- stvltvs 4mo ago
  Context: this is usually just for national holidays like Independence Day next weekend. It's just a way we've traditionally observed them.
  - bestouff 4mo ago
    OK. But even then we don't do that here.
    - esseph 4mo ago
      Do you have an Independence Day from another world power?
    - DougN7 4mo ago
      It’s just cultural. I don’t think Americans wear red, white and blue as much as the Dutch wear orange on their holidays as an example.
    - wolvesechoes 4mo ago
      Who is we? Because we do that here (Poland).
- maxldn 4mo ago
  Maybe NL? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_Netherlands#Display_and_use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_Netherlands#Displa...
- bryanlarsen 4mo ago
  Flags are weird. In Canada, the right wing loves to fly lots of Canadian flags. At the same time one of Pierre Pollievre's main slogans was "Canada is Broken". He dropped that slogan after Trump made Canadian pride cool again, but the sentiment is still there.
rich_sasha 4mo ago
It's incredible how high these levels were so recently. Never mind Trump (though I'm sure he's helping). Dropping from near-100% to near-50% in 25 years? Show me any societal variable that changes so quickly. Clearly their proxy for pride is a bit noisy (flag outside the home) but still. And it's a jubilee year as well.
mcphage 4mo ago
It's hard to feel proud of your country while it's being robbed blind and burned to the ground by a collection of cartoon villains. And knowing that a large chunk of the country either chose this deliberately, or ignored everyone else who told them what they were choosing.

Maybe education levels in USA are rising?

What has happened to my country disgusts me so deeply I am losing my will to live. The only thing to be hopeful for are the midterm elections and I feel like it is foolish beyond reason to expect that to become a magic wand. Hell is empty and the devils are all here.

bestouff 4mo ago
Hey, I understand you're appalled by the political landscape at home. But losing the will to live is too much, way too much. Find a shrink, talk to someone. You're not well, don't let that go worse.
DougN7 4mo ago
I’m disgusted too. But it helps to read some history and gain some perspective. Despite everything going on, this is still historically and pretty darn good time and place to be alive.

bm3719 4mo ago

Pride was once pretty much universally considered a sin, usually because it results in things like arrogance, lack of humility, and a general disconnect from the reality of one's own self. Nationalism often takes the form of pride and is encouraged to some degree by most governments, and now we have an entire month dedicated to that other kind of it. So, maybe passing peak pride, if that's what's occurred, isn't such a bad thing? A national humility month would probably be more psychologically healthy.

etrautmann 4mo ago
This is conflating so many different concepts under one idea of pride. Come on. Yes, humility is also important but it’s a false dilemma and meaningless.
Ferret7446 4mo ago
I don't disagree, but it seems like a dangerous thing to say coming out of Pride month.

urbsgpw 4mo ago

I mean, I kinda found national pride to be a funny concept, but maybe that's because I come from a place that's changed (depending on how you count) 6 different countries in the last 100 years. You guys on the other hand, even the libs/dems, had a version of the manifest destiny in your pockets, or so it seemed. And now one half (or on HN 95% of US users) of you are suddenly appalled with the state of things. To the outside world, however, not much other than theatrics, has changed.

mcphage 4mo ago
> To the outside world, however, not much other than theatrics, has changed. On the inside, it’s very different.

jameskilton 4mo ago

Don't ever let a Republican, and especially a Trump voter, complain about the current state of affairs. They voted for this, and have been voting for this for decades. They have two choices: own it and admit to themselves that they do in fact support fascism, or vow to never, ever again vote Republican or similar for the rest of their lives.

palmotea 4mo ago
> Don't ever let a Republican, and especially a Trump voter, complain about the current state of affairs. Likewise: Don't ever let a Democrat complain about the current state of affairs. They chose to run shit candidates that couldn't even win against a fool like Trump. They voted for this (in the primaries), and have been voting for this for at least a decade. They have two choices: own it and admit to themselves that they don't actually care that much about avoiding "fascism," or vow to never, ever again to vote for Democrats who can't win a "red" [1] state for the rest of their lives. [1] "Red" states are actually not that red. They only seem so "red" because the Democrats stopped trying to represent them.
- OutOfHere 4mo ago
  They literally don't have any good candidates because it takes one or more of these to be at the top: 1. Already having power 2. Extreme wealth 3. Extreme corruption The system is broken, and the ones in power won't allow it to ever be fixed because it benefits them for it to stay broken.
  - palmotea 4mo ago
    > They literally don't have any good candidates because it takes one of these to get to the top: > 1. Extreme wealth > 2. Extreme corruption > 3. All of the above OK. So which of those categories did Obama fall into? I think yours is an over-cynical take that is in fact wrong. > The system is broken, and the ones in power won't allow it to ever be fixed because it benefits them for it to stay broken. The system is broken, but not in the way you describe. The partisan rank-and-file demand candidates that represent the partisan faithful, not an actual majority of the country [1]. They strongly prefer zealous evangelism fantasies and judgement over representation. It's stupid and foolish, and it's how we've gotten were were are. And a lot of Democrats have responded to Trump by getting worse, instead taking a reality check and snapping out of it. [1] And I'm not talking about some milquetoast centrism.

spwa4 4mo ago

I'm just amazed how high it is. Living in Europe, and reading "43% in the U.S. say they display the American flag outside their home" ... wtf. Is there any European country that has 1% do that?

stvltvs 4mo ago
Context: this is usually just for national holidays like Independence Day next weekend. It's just a way we've traditionally observed them.
- bestouff 4mo ago
  OK. But even then we don't do that here.
  - esseph 4mo ago
    Do you have an Independence Day from another world power?
  - DougN7 4mo ago
    It’s just cultural. I don’t think Americans wear red, white and blue as much as the Dutch wear orange on their holidays as an example.
  - wolvesechoes 4mo ago
    Who is we? Because we do that here (Poland).
maxldn 4mo ago
Maybe NL? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_Netherlands#Display_and_use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_the_Netherlands#Displa...
bryanlarsen 4mo ago
Flags are weird. In Canada, the right wing loves to fly lots of Canadian flags. At the same time one of Pierre Pollievre's main slogans was "Canada is Broken". He dropped that slogan after Trump made Canadian pride cool again, but the sentiment is still there.

rich_sasha 4mo ago

It's incredible how high these levels were so recently. Never mind Trump (though I'm sure he's helping). Dropping from near-100% to near-50% in 25 years? Show me any societal variable that changes so quickly. Clearly their proxy for pride is a bit noisy (flag outside the home) but still. And it's a jubilee year as well.

mcphage 4mo ago

It's hard to feel proud of your country while it's being robbed blind and burned to the ground by a collection of cartoon villains. And knowing that a large chunk of the country either chose this deliberately, or ignored everyone else who told them what they were choosing.