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The EU keeps trying to manifest the missing european data infrastructure via data regulation instead of outright bans and limits on american companies, the way
by seydor 4mo ago
The EU keeps trying to manifest the missing european data infrastructure via data regulation instead of outright bans and limits on american companies, the way China did it.
- joe_mamba 4mo ago[flagged]
- jimbob45 4mo agoBan, limits, and regulation won’t solve a country with too many worker protections. The EU simply can’t compete in the modern globalized world.
- hgtt664868 4mo agoslashing worker protections would do what exactly?
- eecc 4mo agofree the "animal spirits"? /s
- CalRobert 4mo agoTbf it could reduce hiring friction and make it easier to take a chance on a riskier hire. Also makes it easier for workers to change jobs, notice periods here can be outright insane (3 months in some cases) and even as an employee I hated them.
- someonebaggy 4mo agoIs a 6 month probationary period not good enough to take a chance?
- CalRobert 4mo agoLongest I’ve seen in NL is 2 months, and it’s usually one. It’s common to string multiple “temporary” contracts together though. It still increases switching cost. As a worker with a permanent contract I have to weigh new opportunities against losing that. And it has real impacts! Getting a mortgage is harder on a temp contract (doable in NL, basically impossible in Ireland)
- Timon3 4mo agoSix months is the default probationary period in Germany, I can't remember ever seeing a job without that. Temporary contracts are also a thing here, but if there's no objective reason for the contract to be temporary it will end after max. two years. According to Verdi ~1/13 contracts are temporary - not great, but could be much worse.
- ligne 4mo agoIt reduces risk for employers by piling it onto employees, who are also probably in a worse position to bear it.
- CalRobert 4mo agoArguably this is the reason it should be borne by the government, not companies. This is one option https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexicurity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexicurity
- shmeeed 4mo agoYou pick it. From what I keep hearing, it's a cure-all. /s
- geraneum 4mo agoReduced worker protections -[somehow]-> better worker output. /s
- eecc 4mo agothe [somehow] is pretty clear: exploitative working conditions.
- joe_mamba 4mo agoCheck Swiss worker protections compared to France or Germany and then check their economy and tech companies there. Biggest Google office outside the US is in Switzerland. It's not better worker output, it's faster movement and pivoting to rapid changing market conditions as a company, if you can get rid of slackers that abuse unions and worker protections to coast and do nothing.
- geraneum 4mo ago[dead]
- 0dayz 4mo agoIt's more simple than that; lack of investment due to various factors among which some are due to regulations, but also because the lower ROI you get in the USA due to corporate culture, higher cost in general (wages, energy, resources, manufacturing, etc.), slower economic growth and so on.
- barnabee 4mo agoThe only answer isn't to sink to the lowest common denominator. Ban or tax things from the "globalised" world that are just worker/societal/environmental protection arbitrage so they're competing for the EU market on a level playing field, then we'll see who can compete. The EU is plenty big enough to be self-sufficient if it has to and shouldn't be afraid of risking this if abusive and exploitative companies from other places don't way to pay their way.
- dgellow 4mo agoThe EU isn’t a country, which is exactly why things are lacking vision and feel confusing. The EU is actually too decentralized and fragmented for its own good, contrary to what people whine about. We need more federalism, and an actual single market
- bambax 4mo agoThe EU should cut all ties with the US, tax US products and impose costly (and difficult to get) visas to American citizens wanting to visit. It won't do any of this because it has no balls and no vision. We're doomed and it's our fault.
- rusk 4mo ago> no balls and no vision Seems to me they’re waiting it out. Everything could change in a presidential election and the European economy wins either way. It is an economic bloc after all. What you describe would be what’s called “cutting off your nose to spite your face”
- GolfPopper 4mo agoThe problem with "everything could change in a presidential election" is that offers no stability. No one wants to plan around "maybe the United States goes rabid again in four years".
- watwut 4mo ago> Everything could change in a presidential election A lot can change, but not everything. Trump won twice and republican elites are fully behind him. Even if he looses, the same ideologies will continue. It happened twice, it is not a fluke but a permanent property of American politics. Moreover, constitutional changes supreme court created are structural change. They will be super hard to undone - first they would need to change supreme court composition. The influence of money in American politics will just grow, the structural advantages of conservatives have in voting system will just grow and next conservative president will have even more space for maneuvering. (Non conservative one will likely be stopped by supreme court on some excuse.) So, basically, outside of change actual constitution which is impossible, it will stay the same at best in the long term.
- rusk 4mo agoI agree with everything you have written here, however even in the face of that it makes “economic” sense for the EU to wait it out.
- armchairhacker 4mo agoOutright bans would destroy European companies that rely on American companies. First they need to build their own infrastructure (which China has done).
- shmeeed 4mo agoLegislation for a ban will take years anyway, and will have sunrise/sundown provisions. This will provide ample time to build the infrastructure. But infra won't happen without mandating the transition, since market incentives will always pull against it. The time to start this process is now.
- BlueTemplar 4mo agoWhat kind of 'infrastructure' did China have when they had "fallen out" with Google (in 2010?), that the EU does not have now ?
- bigfudge 4mo agoI agree. Beyond scale and inertia against moving (and frontier AI models) it’s not obvious to me what would be hard to replicate in Europe given regulation that mandated non-US hosting. Most companies using hyper scalers are doing weird superstitious things at the behest of overpaid consultants. And the huge margins they take make it easier to adapt to things like higher electricity costs.
- armchairhacker 4mo agoIt’s technically possible, but would face too much resistance. People don’t want to leave familiar and cheaper services, and care less about the non-immediate issue of European sovereignty.
- iamnothere 4mo agoEurope has Jolla and Fairphone (who could surely work out something with GrapheneOS). Seems like the problem is will.
- sublimefire 4mo agoPrivacy laws are actually one of the very useful things that came out. It is difficult to do the same in the US because of the business lobby. It is crazy that US citizens data can be purchased in the “black” market and the used by the agencies. Leaving tech companies to self regulate is just not viable and it is proven time and time again they cannot do it.
- tancop 4mo agobans and limits just hurt consumers and freedom of speech. data regulation is useless as you said. what china actually did is a lot better. they ignored decades worth of friedman inspired economic "theory" and started directly investing in their own industry. most successful chinese tech companies are a joint venture between state owned, municipal and private capital. you can get loans way under market rate if you have a good business plan in a industry the government is treating as a priority. in america every time someone like obama or biden tried they got shut down by big money interests. any investment is bad because its "picking winners and losers". subsidies are bad because the only way to pay for them is increasing taxes and thats bad for profits. europe should never go down that path.
- seydor 4mo agoFWIW the EU is a basically a large subsidies-handing body. They do pick winners (like with solar companies) but it did not work.
- joe_mamba 4mo agoWhen those in charge of handing out the subsidies are both corrupt and incompetent, it's tough to make it work. Unless of course, the point of the EU subsidies is just to be a wealth transfer program from the taxpayers to politically connected corporations.
- hilariously 4mo agoThe headline is that the US Supreme Court broke the deal that made this work, the EU was perfectly fine with an independent organization managing the problem. Blaming the EU for asking for some basic sanity is ???