5 ms·

it's market changed it started as a computer for professionals now its for people who want to look cool. so form is much more important than function, it's li

it's market changed it started as a computer for professionals now its for people who want to look cool. so form is much more important than function, it's literally what you buy

refactor_master 4mo ago
Is that why their laptops routinely beat the competition year after year in reviews and reliability surveys? Because they “look cool”? I’m going to need some more numbers on that one.
- FireBeyond 4mo ago
  All my devices are Apple: laptop, Studio, display, phone, iPad, watch... I will say that Apple has solidified on the design and reliability "recently". But let's not pretend that the MBP line, to pick on one, didn't go through some rough rough days. I've had laptops that had the delaminating screen, the 'single grain of sand can ruin it' butterfly keyboard, hell, I've had two models that had recalled logic boards. Early Magsafe connectors (fantastic invention) where the rubber would routinely fail even without tension (I had two that failed, exposing bare wire, even though they spent the entirety of their life on a desk, routed through a cable organizer, far away from any UV sunlight hitting them directly. But now? Things are much, much more solid.
  - TylerE 4mo ago
    Even the worst MBP is light years better than the plasticky crap on the Windows side.
    - FireBeyond 4mo ago
      If you're comparing an MBP to a $500 Acer (the Neo changes that nexus a bit, though I don't know much about it), then yes, of course it is, and for a reason (or 600-1000 reasons). I don't use anything, but it's not like Windows is AWOL - my partner's Dell is quality construction, and the Yoga Pro my stepdaughter uses for college. You could still say (and I'd agree) that the MBP is still better designed (for me: "except the edges" - I hate the sharpness) but it's not like "there's Macs and there's dogshit".
    - rolymath 4mo ago
      "Plasticky crap" like the x1 carbon? I daily drive a mac, but I would drop it in an instant once I can get linux on arm on thinkpad.
  - happymellon 4mo ago
    You missed the late Intel MBPs which I remember heating up hotter than the sun and exhausting it out the back which made the touch bar uncomfortable to touch!
    - LoganDark 4mo ago
      [dead]
    - nayroclade 4mo ago
      Some of the other examples you could maybe say are just poor industrial design or bad execution of a potentially workable idea, but the Intel MBP thermal debacle was definitely the most egregious example of Apple blindly pursuing form-over-function. They set a goal for ultra-slim laptop forms that the components they were using simply could never achieve. It would have been obvious from prototyping that temperature was a major problem, but whatever decision making process they had in place at the time overrode it. The best you can say is they seemed to have learned from their mistake.
wpm 4mo ago
Haha yeah! Mac users just buy them to look cool while they write their whatever in the coffee shop! This is definitely not a preposterous and outdated observation/joke!
- dsego 4mo ago
  Wasn't there a trend where kids were just wearing dead apple watches as accessories? It's just a status symbol, like gold bracelets.
  - wett 4mo ago
    I just graduated college and I’ve never heard of this. Can’t find anything about it online either. You can get a functional Apple Watch on Facebook for 50-100 bucks. So not much of a signal for status. We have much sillier, trendier accessories to choose from :)
    - dsego 4mo ago
      Might be just a certain demographic then, there was a viral tiktok with athletes wearing dead apple watches.
      - internet2000 4mo ago
        Are you not in the United States?
        dsego 4mo ago
        I'm not.
    - lukan 4mo ago
      Not every kid has 50-100 bucks avaiable.
  - KPGv2 4mo ago
    Yeah, and there are kids pooping in litterboxes in Texas schools! /s I would never trust media covering youth trends. It's a bunch of 50yos whose teenager told them something as a joke and they took it seriously. See also: latest millennial trend is avocado toast, and that's why they're all broke
Quothling 4mo ago
I challenge you to find a laptop that can do what my macbook air m1 with 8gb of ram does at the $899 it was through the education store. No fan, awesome battery life, good trackpad and keyboard, the ability to not get hot while using it. I'm a senior platform engineer who at the time I bought it was a senior software developer, who can still use it for my daily tasks despite it having 8gb of ram. Until very recently the 32gb T14 I had ad work was frankly worse performant than the little air, while having a battery life of around 45 minutes a fan sounding like a jetengine and a keyboard so hot it made the sun jealous. My new model is way faster than my macbook air though, but the old model was technically newer than the air. Obviously the comparisson isn't completely fair since we run a lot of corporate enterprise stuff on our laptops, but still. I'd really like a Linux laptop, but a Framework laptop is expensive (and it has loud fans and runs hot). A tuxedo is even more expensive and has fans where you'd place it on your legs for whatever reason, and runs hot. Looking at the laptop market now, I can't see what you'd buy. A week ago I would've said the Neo (if the 8gb of ram holds up as well on the mobile chip as it does on the m1), but today I'm guessing a refurbished air with 16gb would be the only real option for someone who want's a cool low noise machine with decent battery time. Whether you run OS/X or Asahi, I really can't see what you'd buy other than these. At least if you actually use it on your lap and don't just have it sit in a dock on a table. Then again, I'm the sort of person who would buy the pink neo because it would fuck with the perception people have of my mid 40 Scandinavian conservativeish dad look. So maybe it is just about the message?
- 21asdffdsa12 4mo ago
  Are there any laptops where the cooling is handled by the screen backside?
- applfanboysbgon 4mo ago
  > $899 it was through the education store Comparing a subsidised computer for children to one that isn't isn't exactly a fair comparison, is it? > No fan, You know why Macbooks don't need a fan? It's because they aren't powerful enough to draw heat in the first place. A month ago, for the same price as a $1700 Macbook Pro (before the recent increase) I got a laptop with a CPU that is literally twice as fast on parellelisable workloads, has a 5070 Ti vs. nothing at all, and 32GB RAM. A superior screen, keyboard, and I can install my own choice of OS on it, too. Now that same dingy Macbook Pro costs $2000, or $2400 if you want 32GB RAM. Apple's greatest coup was convincing people that paying twice as much for half the hardware was a killer feature, and now everyone goes on and on about how Macbooks are the most premium hardware money can buy because they're so weak they don't need a fan to keep them cool. It's truly remarkable how susceptible people are to status-culture-based marketing. Username related.
mfru 4mo ago
MacBooks have the best value/money ratio at the moment. The combination of battery life, processing power and touch pad UX are unmatched
ChrisMarshallNY 4mo ago
> it started as a computer for professionals I feel as if it was the opposite. It started as a true "home computer," and nowadays, it's used to do work. The fact that MacOS is probably the worst gaming platform on Earth (and Apple doesn't seem to lose sleep over it -although I think they'd like iPad to be a better gaming platform), is an indicator that people use the computer to get work done; whether at home, or in the office. But there's a lot of pretty visceral hatred for Apple -especially in tech circles- so I don't expect much reasoned discourse about it.
pndy 4mo ago
I dare to say that this market change works both ways. Software is now created by people who have little idea about UI concepts, or even who don't want to bother themselves with these. Because the dominant type of a device is no longer a desktop computer. This isn't about strictly Apple as other companies also create, or allow to exist "awful" interfaces with no substance. Is it a bad thing? Not necessary. Smartphones revolution made Internet truly accessible to everyone by cost of dumbing down software by features and UI - turning effectively these devices to work like any other home appliance. Software today has to have that captivating appearance so user wouldn't be scared away. But nothing is perfect and there are examples where users are being treated with this nasty infantile approach by literally showing confetti and balloons as the satisfaction derived from interaction. The peak was flat style which not only introduced maximum simplified interfaces, design but also provided grounds for all sorts of darkpatterns where content is indistinguishable from active element. That let companies manipulate the user's informed choice.

it's market changed it started as a computer for professionals now its for people who want to look cool. so form is much more important than function, it's literally what you buy

refactor_master 4mo ago

Is that why their laptops routinely beat the competition year after year in reviews and reliability surveys? Because they “look cool”? I’m going to need some more numbers on that one.

FireBeyond 4mo ago
All my devices are Apple: laptop, Studio, display, phone, iPad, watch... I will say that Apple has solidified on the design and reliability "recently". But let's not pretend that the MBP line, to pick on one, didn't go through some rough rough days. I've had laptops that had the delaminating screen, the 'single grain of sand can ruin it' butterfly keyboard, hell, I've had two models that had recalled logic boards. Early Magsafe connectors (fantastic invention) where the rubber would routinely fail even without tension (I had two that failed, exposing bare wire, even though they spent the entirety of their life on a desk, routed through a cable organizer, far away from any UV sunlight hitting them directly. But now? Things are much, much more solid.
- TylerE 4mo ago
  Even the worst MBP is light years better than the plasticky crap on the Windows side.
  - FireBeyond 4mo ago
    If you're comparing an MBP to a $500 Acer (the Neo changes that nexus a bit, though I don't know much about it), then yes, of course it is, and for a reason (or 600-1000 reasons). I don't use anything, but it's not like Windows is AWOL - my partner's Dell is quality construction, and the Yoga Pro my stepdaughter uses for college. You could still say (and I'd agree) that the MBP is still better designed (for me: "except the edges" - I hate the sharpness) but it's not like "there's Macs and there's dogshit".
  - rolymath 4mo ago
    "Plasticky crap" like the x1 carbon? I daily drive a mac, but I would drop it in an instant once I can get linux on arm on thinkpad.
- happymellon 4mo ago
  You missed the late Intel MBPs which I remember heating up hotter than the sun and exhausting it out the back which made the touch bar uncomfortable to touch!
  - LoganDark 4mo ago
    [dead]
  - nayroclade 4mo ago
    Some of the other examples you could maybe say are just poor industrial design or bad execution of a potentially workable idea, but the Intel MBP thermal debacle was definitely the most egregious example of Apple blindly pursuing form-over-function. They set a goal for ultra-slim laptop forms that the components they were using simply could never achieve. It would have been obvious from prototyping that temperature was a major problem, but whatever decision making process they had in place at the time overrode it. The best you can say is they seemed to have learned from their mistake.

wpm 4mo ago

Haha yeah! Mac users just buy them to look cool while they write their whatever in the coffee shop! This is definitely not a preposterous and outdated observation/joke!

dsego 4mo ago
Wasn't there a trend where kids were just wearing dead apple watches as accessories? It's just a status symbol, like gold bracelets.
- wett 4mo ago
  I just graduated college and I’ve never heard of this. Can’t find anything about it online either. You can get a functional Apple Watch on Facebook for 50-100 bucks. So not much of a signal for status. We have much sillier, trendier accessories to choose from :)
  - dsego 4mo ago
    Might be just a certain demographic then, there was a viral tiktok with athletes wearing dead apple watches.
    - internet2000 4mo ago
      Are you not in the United States?
      - dsego 4mo ago
        I'm not.
  - lukan 4mo ago
    Not every kid has 50-100 bucks avaiable.
- KPGv2 4mo ago
  Yeah, and there are kids pooping in litterboxes in Texas schools! /s I would never trust media covering youth trends. It's a bunch of 50yos whose teenager told them something as a joke and they took it seriously. See also: latest millennial trend is avocado toast, and that's why they're all broke

Quothling 4mo ago

I challenge you to find a laptop that can do what my macbook air m1 with 8gb of ram does at the $899 it was through the education store. No fan, awesome battery life, good trackpad and keyboard, the ability to not get hot while using it. I'm a senior platform engineer who at the time I bought it was a senior software developer, who can still use it for my daily tasks despite it having 8gb of ram. Until very recently the 32gb T14 I had ad work was frankly worse performant than the little air, while having a battery life of around 45 minutes a fan sounding like a jetengine and a keyboard so hot it made the sun jealous. My new model is way faster than my macbook air though, but the old model was technically newer than the air. Obviously the comparisson isn't completely fair since we run a lot of corporate enterprise stuff on our laptops, but still. I'd really like a Linux laptop, but a Framework laptop is expensive (and it has loud fans and runs hot). A tuxedo is even more expensive and has fans where you'd place it on your legs for whatever reason, and runs hot. Looking at the laptop market now, I can't see what you'd buy. A week ago I would've said the Neo (if the 8gb of ram holds up as well on the mobile chip as it does on the m1), but today I'm guessing a refurbished air with 16gb would be the only real option for someone who want's a cool low noise machine with decent battery time. Whether you run OS/X or Asahi, I really can't see what you'd buy other than these. At least if you actually use it on your lap and don't just have it sit in a dock on a table. Then again, I'm the sort of person who would buy the pink neo because it would fuck with the perception people have of my mid 40 Scandinavian conservativeish dad look. So maybe it is just about the message?

21asdffdsa12 4mo ago
Are there any laptops where the cooling is handled by the screen backside?
applfanboysbgon 4mo ago
> $899 it was through the education store Comparing a subsidised computer for children to one that isn't isn't exactly a fair comparison, is it? > No fan, You know why Macbooks don't need a fan? It's because they aren't powerful enough to draw heat in the first place. A month ago, for the same price as a $1700 Macbook Pro (before the recent increase) I got a laptop with a CPU that is literally twice as fast on parellelisable workloads, has a 5070 Ti vs. nothing at all, and 32GB RAM. A superior screen, keyboard, and I can install my own choice of OS on it, too. Now that same dingy Macbook Pro costs $2000, or $2400 if you want 32GB RAM. Apple's greatest coup was convincing people that paying twice as much for half the hardware was a killer feature, and now everyone goes on and on about how Macbooks are the most premium hardware money can buy because they're so weak they don't need a fan to keep them cool. It's truly remarkable how susceptible people are to status-culture-based marketing. Username related.

mfru 4mo ago

MacBooks have the best value/money ratio at the moment. The combination of battery life, processing power and touch pad UX are unmatched

ChrisMarshallNY 4mo ago

> it started as a computer for professionals I feel as if it was the opposite. It started as a true "home computer," and nowadays, it's used to do work. The fact that MacOS is probably the worst gaming platform on Earth (and Apple doesn't seem to lose sleep over it -although I think they'd like iPad to be a better gaming platform), is an indicator that people use the computer to get work done; whether at home, or in the office. But there's a lot of pretty visceral hatred for Apple -especially in tech circles- so I don't expect much reasoned discourse about it.

pndy 4mo ago

I dare to say that this market change works both ways. Software is now created by people who have little idea about UI concepts, or even who don't want to bother themselves with these. Because the dominant type of a device is no longer a desktop computer. This isn't about strictly Apple as other companies also create, or allow to exist "awful" interfaces with no substance. Is it a bad thing? Not necessary. Smartphones revolution made Internet truly accessible to everyone by cost of dumbing down software by features and UI - turning effectively these devices to work like any other home appliance. Software today has to have that captivating appearance so user wouldn't be scared away. But nothing is perfect and there are examples where users are being treated with this nasty infantile approach by literally showing confetti and balloons as the satisfaction derived from interaction. The peak was flat style which not only introduced maximum simplified interfaces, design but also provided grounds for all sorts of darkpatterns where content is indistinguishable from active element. That let companies manipulate the user's informed choice.