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There is no basis to suggest that any product uses this property of water. As for homeopathy, it isn't one thing. The effects, if any, can vary greatly by the s

There is no basis to suggest that any product uses this property of water. As for homeopathy, it isn't one thing. The effects, if any, can vary greatly by the substance and the concentration. Some low-dilution products work and many high-dilution products don't. There is such a thing as excessive dilution. Anyone who is painting a simpler picture of it is almost certainly wrong.

deleted 4mo ago
[deleted]
jiggawatts 4mo ago
Homeopathy is very literally the singular concept that more diluted medicine works better. Saying that “less diluted works better” is saying the diametric opposite of what Homeopathic “theory” does!
- OutOfHere 4mo ago
  You're speaking of classical homeopathy, not practical observation. In practice there are many homeopathic products with varying dilutions, many of which have a meaningful amount of the substance, and therefore the distinct possibility of a biological effect.
  - jiggawatts 4mo ago
    Sure, but homeopaths would consider the less diluted ones to be the weaker “medicine”!
    - spacebacon 4mo ago
      [dead]
    - OutOfHere 4mo ago
      Perhaps some very traditional ones would. Most people are just concerned with addressing their symptoms. Rightly or wrongly, homeopathic products are considered medicines, not supplements, and people in general are very mindful of spending money on medicines that don't work.
      - kyralis 4mo ago
        > Rightly or wrongly, homeopathic products are considered medicines, not supplements, and people in general are very mindful of spending money on medicines that don't work. [Citation needed]. People spend enormous amounts of money on junk "cures" and have done for centuries. Homeopathy is just one of the many current such scams.
        qsera 4mo ago
        You are forgetting the fact that many allopathic medicines are also junk cures which are seldom not better than a placebo (pushed through by flawed methodologies and corruption). And when they are found, they gets banned in US, but continued to be used in third world, where the now "junk" cures are sold as legit science! This could be why Homeopathy can compete with allopathy because both the versions are "junk", so "junk" sold by someone who has more time to talk with the patients win..
        OutOfHere 4mo ago
        Many mainstream medicines absolutely are junk, e.g. phenylephrine as a nasal decongestant. Moreover many can be fairly harmful, sometimes causing permanent damage. As a case in point, I have a prescription medicine induced permanent tinnitus. Other prescription medicines gave me kidney injury and high blood pressure, but at least those effects were temporary and reversible. Practically all rx medicines also come with an assortment of harmful additives and even petroleum dyes (artificial colors) that are known to be inflammatory and injurious. Anyhow, it's not the angle of discussion that I was going for. Your assertion that homeopathy as a whole is a scam is rooted in a tiring misconception that all of its products are too dilute to work which is a falsity. Numerous homoeopathic products absolutely have a sufficient amount of the product to result in a biological effect.
        OutOfHere 4mo ago
        > [Citation needed] Just what the hell are you arguing? They're not condiments or decorations or supplements or foods. Medicine is the word we use for drugs that are intended to address an active medical concern whether they work or not. Also for the record, standard pharma medicines often try to pass off seriously toxic ingredients in their products, e.g. benzalkonium chloride, which is a quarternary ammonium compound, a notable tissue irritant causing significant tissue injury, such as to the nose and throat. The FDA doesn't care about you; they exist to protect the vendors.
  - BobbyTables2 4mo ago
    Agree! Someone once told me that homeopathic doctors often put significant amounts of allopathic medicine in their “homeopathic” concoctions. Does wonders for effectiveness! Perpetuating the classical myth in this manner is also great for business! Of course, there are also a number of cases where western “supplements” were caught containing actual prescription medicine, not just natural precursors or such. Same idea…
    - OutOfHere 4mo ago
      That might be true but it's absolutely not what I was getting at. Certainly I have never had or even seen a supplement containing any prescription medicine. My comment was strictly in the context of ingredients and isolated labeled products that are used only in the homeopathic space.
DrBazza 4mo ago
If I add water to a glass of whiskey and dilute it, why don't I get twice as drunk?
- qsera 4mo ago
  But you can drink a lot more that way and get way more drunk!
  - OutOfHere 4mo ago
    Assuming the original dilution is adequate, further dilution will slow the consumption, making one less drunk.
    - qsera 4mo ago
      Try drinking a pint dry, and try drinking it diluted with water. And let me know what was easy...
- OutOfHere 4mo ago
  Because the amount of total intoxicant is the same. Let: A = amount of ethanol V = initial whiskey volume W = added water Initial concentration: c₁ = A / V After dilution: c₂ = A / (V + W) If you drink the entire diluted glass: ethanol consumed = c₂(V + W) = A Intoxication ∝ ethanol consumed Therefore: drunkenness ∝ A not ∝ (V + W) Adding water changes concentration, not the total ethanol: A = constant ⇒ drunkenness = constant (ignoring effects of drinking rate).

deleted 4mo ago

[deleted]

jiggawatts 4mo ago

Homeopathy is very literally the singular concept that more diluted medicine works better. Saying that “less diluted works better” is saying the diametric opposite of what Homeopathic “theory” does!

OutOfHere 4mo ago
You're speaking of classical homeopathy, not practical observation. In practice there are many homeopathic products with varying dilutions, many of which have a meaningful amount of the substance, and therefore the distinct possibility of a biological effect.
- jiggawatts 4mo ago
  Sure, but homeopaths would consider the less diluted ones to be the weaker “medicine”!
  - spacebacon 4mo ago
    [dead]
  - OutOfHere 4mo ago
    Perhaps some very traditional ones would. Most people are just concerned with addressing their symptoms. Rightly or wrongly, homeopathic products are considered medicines, not supplements, and people in general are very mindful of spending money on medicines that don't work.
    - kyralis 4mo ago
      > Rightly or wrongly, homeopathic products are considered medicines, not supplements, and people in general are very mindful of spending money on medicines that don't work. [Citation needed]. People spend enormous amounts of money on junk "cures" and have done for centuries. Homeopathy is just one of the many current such scams.
      - qsera 4mo ago
        You are forgetting the fact that many allopathic medicines are also junk cures which are seldom not better than a placebo (pushed through by flawed methodologies and corruption). And when they are found, they gets banned in US, but continued to be used in third world, where the now "junk" cures are sold as legit science! This could be why Homeopathy can compete with allopathy because both the versions are "junk", so "junk" sold by someone who has more time to talk with the patients win..
      - OutOfHere 4mo ago
        Many mainstream medicines absolutely are junk, e.g. phenylephrine as a nasal decongestant. Moreover many can be fairly harmful, sometimes causing permanent damage. As a case in point, I have a prescription medicine induced permanent tinnitus. Other prescription medicines gave me kidney injury and high blood pressure, but at least those effects were temporary and reversible. Practically all rx medicines also come with an assortment of harmful additives and even petroleum dyes (artificial colors) that are known to be inflammatory and injurious. Anyhow, it's not the angle of discussion that I was going for. Your assertion that homeopathy as a whole is a scam is rooted in a tiring misconception that all of its products are too dilute to work which is a falsity. Numerous homoeopathic products absolutely have a sufficient amount of the product to result in a biological effect.
      - OutOfHere 4mo ago
        > [Citation needed] Just what the hell are you arguing? They're not condiments or decorations or supplements or foods. Medicine is the word we use for drugs that are intended to address an active medical concern whether they work or not. Also for the record, standard pharma medicines often try to pass off seriously toxic ingredients in their products, e.g. benzalkonium chloride, which is a quarternary ammonium compound, a notable tissue irritant causing significant tissue injury, such as to the nose and throat. The FDA doesn't care about you; they exist to protect the vendors.
- BobbyTables2 4mo ago
  Agree! Someone once told me that homeopathic doctors often put significant amounts of allopathic medicine in their “homeopathic” concoctions. Does wonders for effectiveness! Perpetuating the classical myth in this manner is also great for business! Of course, there are also a number of cases where western “supplements” were caught containing actual prescription medicine, not just natural precursors or such. Same idea…
  - OutOfHere 4mo ago
    That might be true but it's absolutely not what I was getting at. Certainly I have never had or even seen a supplement containing any prescription medicine. My comment was strictly in the context of ingredients and isolated labeled products that are used only in the homeopathic space.

DrBazza 4mo ago

If I add water to a glass of whiskey and dilute it, why don't I get twice as drunk?

qsera 4mo ago
But you can drink a lot more that way and get way more drunk!
- OutOfHere 4mo ago
  Assuming the original dilution is adequate, further dilution will slow the consumption, making one less drunk.
  - qsera 4mo ago
    Try drinking a pint dry, and try drinking it diluted with water. And let me know what was easy...
OutOfHere 4mo ago
Because the amount of total intoxicant is the same. Let: A = amount of ethanol V = initial whiskey volume W = added water Initial concentration: c₁ = A / V After dilution: c₂ = A / (V + W) If you drink the entire diluted glass: ethanol consumed = c₂(V + W) = A Intoxication ∝ ethanol consumed Therefore: drunkenness ∝ A not ∝ (V + W) Adding water changes concentration, not the total ethanol: A = constant ⇒ drunkenness = constant (ignoring effects of drinking rate).