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> Actually I suspect that Rust is a Silver Bullet in that sense. Not really. If anything I'm pretty sure Fred would compare it to Ada: > Nevertheless, Ada

by Ygg2 3mo ago

> Actually I suspect that Rust is a Silver Bullet in that sense. Not really. If anything I'm pretty sure Fred would compare it to Ada: > Nevertheless, Ada will not prove to be the silver bullet that slays the software productivity monster, It is, after all, just another high-level language, and the biggest payoff from such languages came from the first transition, up from the accidental complexities of the machine into the more abstract statement of step-by-step solutions. And I think he'd be on the money. Rust and Ada are revolutionary languages in their own right, but 10x holy grail they aren't.

tialaramex 3mo ago
> And I think he'd be on the money. Rust and Ada are revolutionary languages in their own right, but 10x holy grail they aren't. Google reports 4x fewer (and still falling) rollbacks for Rust versus C++ in their Android development for example. That's not 10x but it's pretty sizeable.
- pjmlp 3mo ago
  Which they could equally achieve by reducing even further the use of NDK, or moving more stuff into Kotlin/Java processes using Android IPC. Naturally there are several ideological questions between that approach from the anti GC crowd, and adopting Rust instead. Not that breaks the C++ vs Rust from your comment, though.
  - tancop 3mo ago
    thats how you get bloated memory use and disk space. you know, the things everyone complains about when it comes to modern tech
    - pjmlp 3mo ago
      Only by programmers that missed algorithms and data structures classes, unfortunately plenty of them nowadays, fresh out of JavaScript and Python Web bootcamps with zero CS background. Folks that wonder pre-history tech with amazement and lack of understanding of how it used to work in first place. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48727323 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48727323
      - tialaramex 3mo ago
        The problem in your classic DS&A class is that they spend scant attention if any on the crucial difference between "This big-O evaluation is awesome" and "In the real world this goes fast/ is small" The Red Black tree, C++ std::map is a classic example. It has these very attractive theoretical properties, but then you try one for real in C++ and oh, why is this so slow and so RAM hungry? Well yeah, those are only real world problems, the big-O numbers don't care about that.
        pjmlp 3mo ago
        C++ implementation problems are another matter, caused by how WG21 sadly works, than anything else. Ironically there are C# implementations that perform better, exactly because they were developed without WG21 working environment, in a compiled managed language. For all the performance minded talk, the walk doesn't always follow. Also std::map cannot be improved by existing processes.
      - Ygg2 3mo ago
        Nah. You have to be very intentional in GC languages to avoid extra allocations. It doesn't take much for one memory inefficient dep to drag down the entire app.

by Ygg2 3mo ago

tialaramex 3mo ago

> And I think he'd be on the money. Rust and Ada are revolutionary languages in their own right, but 10x holy grail they aren't. Google reports 4x fewer (and still falling) rollbacks for Rust versus C++ in their Android development for example. That's not 10x but it's pretty sizeable.

pjmlp 3mo ago
Which they could equally achieve by reducing even further the use of NDK, or moving more stuff into Kotlin/Java processes using Android IPC. Naturally there are several ideological questions between that approach from the anti GC crowd, and adopting Rust instead. Not that breaks the C++ vs Rust from your comment, though.
- tancop 3mo ago
  thats how you get bloated memory use and disk space. you know, the things everyone complains about when it comes to modern tech
  - pjmlp 3mo ago
    Only by programmers that missed algorithms and data structures classes, unfortunately plenty of them nowadays, fresh out of JavaScript and Python Web bootcamps with zero CS background. Folks that wonder pre-history tech with amazement and lack of understanding of how it used to work in first place. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48727323 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48727323
    - tialaramex 3mo ago
      The problem in your classic DS&A class is that they spend scant attention if any on the crucial difference between "This big-O evaluation is awesome" and "In the real world this goes fast/ is small" The Red Black tree, C++ std::map is a classic example. It has these very attractive theoretical properties, but then you try one for real in C++ and oh, why is this so slow and so RAM hungry? Well yeah, those are only real world problems, the big-O numbers don't care about that.
      - pjmlp 3mo ago
        C++ implementation problems are another matter, caused by how WG21 sadly works, than anything else. Ironically there are C# implementations that perform better, exactly because they were developed without WG21 working environment, in a compiled managed language. For all the performance minded talk, the walk doesn't always follow. Also std::map cannot be improved by existing processes.
    - Ygg2 3mo ago
      Nah. You have to be very intentional in GC languages to avoid extra allocations. It doesn't take much for one memory inefficient dep to drag down the entire app.