3 ms·

Can you point to the charter where the Örebro party ever said that you don't deserve to live? The embellishments of what people actually believe is extremely e

by dijit 3mo ago

Can you point to the charter where the Örebro party ever said that you don't deserve to live? The embellishments of what people actually believe is extremely exhausting. FWIW, I'm an immigrant in Sweden and if they gained power I would be affected, but we talk about people with differing views to us as if they're actively violent in order to shut down conversation. This catasphrophising language will eventually not help your cause, because ordinary people start to feel numb to it and the hard-right will not be defeated by it.

vitally3643 3mo ago
Talking about how entire races of people deserve to be deported is active violence
- dijit 3mo ago
  So “don’t deserve to live” is down to “violence”. Q: When people seek asylum, is the expectation that they should return when its safe? Or is taking in 10% of population mean that you have a permanent minority population that is part of a permanent underclass similar to how black people have it in the US? Genuinely asking.
  - BoggleOhYeah 3mo ago
    Does that line of thinking hold when this party has also said they also want to deport people born in Sweden? >"They will also be forced to leave, even if they are born in Sweden, because they have no natural connection to Sweden. They are not Swedish."
    - dijit 3mo ago
      Sure, children of asylum seekers should probably live with their parents when they return to their home countries.
      - account42 3mo ago
        It's worth reminding people that gaining citizenship by birth location is NOT even close universal around the world and that people inherit citizenship from their parents is not some radical far right notion.
  - wolvoleo 3mo ago
    That you consider immigrants to be automatically part of an 'underclass' is very telling of the stigmatisation of asylum seekers. Some of them are doctors and scientists especially from places like Syria.
    - dijit 3mo ago
      > That you consider immigrants to be automatically part of an 'underclass' is very telling of the stigmatisation of asylum seekers. What? Motherfucker I am part of the underclass, it's brutally hard to escape the underclass and unfortunately if you turn up to a country with no connections, no safety net, no money and no applicable skills then: YOU ARE PART OF THE UNDERCLASS. Why are all the Foodora drivers Arab? do you think Arabs are pre-disposed for food delivery? No, it's because gig-work that barely pays the bills is the only option for many: this is disgusting servitude, barely surviving like this. > Some of them are doctors and scientists especially from places like Syria. Doctors from Syria who don't speak Swedish, need to pass a bunch of Swedish certifications to practice and cannot take female patients aren't going to get along well. It's a valid point and one I would grant you, but it's very true that the observed reality of things is that asylum seekers are the most vulnerable in society. Pretending they're not doesn't make this not the case.
      - wolvoleo 3mo ago
        My ex is an immigrant from a poor country and she does this kind of job, like driving uber. For a middle man who provides the car so it's not very lucrative. Doesn't mean you're automatically underclass. In her whole family nobody is involved in anything criminal. In terms of wealth I would consider them middle class. Like me, I'm also a middle class immigrant though from a western (richer than here) country with university education. I'm just not very ambitious so I coast in a middle level job by choice. But they all came here with nothing more than high school diplomas. They just work harder for it than I do. Nights, tough work etc. She worked very hard to get a local passport too. Because that's not easy these days. The stereotype of immigrants ending up straight in the ghetto is incorrect IMO.
        3mo ago
- mvdtnz 3mo ago
  Nope, sorry, talking is never violence.
  - YorickPeterse 3mo ago
    Ah yes, so if say Hitler says "millions of people should die" then it's not violence, it's "just" words.
    - peterfirefly 3mo ago
      [flagged]
- skjoldr 3mo ago
  Come to Ukraine and witness real "active violence". This is ridiculous.
  - bossyTeacher 3mo ago
    There is more to violence than physical violence you know. Verbal, emotional violence is violence as often seen in domestic abuse cases.
therouwboat 3mo ago
Its not that they start to feel numb, they didn't care in the first place. I have had random co-workers start talking about how they don't want foreigners in Finland and that in Sweden immigrants (maybe you) get free money and don't work.
- skjoldr 3mo ago
  Asylum seekers in the EU indeed get a monthly allowance and are prohibited from working. Is this not a known fact?
  - therouwboat 3mo ago
    They need to get permission, but they can work. I did mention that this person wanted all foreigners out.
  - wolvoleo 3mo ago
    Which is a direct result of the right-wing conservatives complaining about them taking locals' jobs. There are some exceptions like for Ukrainian refugees. By the way this is only during the validation of their asylum-seeker status. Once they get permanent residency they can work.

by dijit 3mo ago

vitally3643 3mo ago

Talking about how entire races of people deserve to be deported is active violence

dijit 3mo ago
So “don’t deserve to live” is down to “violence”. Q: When people seek asylum, is the expectation that they should return when its safe? Or is taking in 10% of population mean that you have a permanent minority population that is part of a permanent underclass similar to how black people have it in the US? Genuinely asking.
- BoggleOhYeah 3mo ago
  Does that line of thinking hold when this party has also said they also want to deport people born in Sweden? >"They will also be forced to leave, even if they are born in Sweden, because they have no natural connection to Sweden. They are not Swedish."
  - dijit 3mo ago
    Sure, children of asylum seekers should probably live with their parents when they return to their home countries.
    - account42 3mo ago
      It's worth reminding people that gaining citizenship by birth location is NOT even close universal around the world and that people inherit citizenship from their parents is not some radical far right notion.
- wolvoleo 3mo ago
  That you consider immigrants to be automatically part of an 'underclass' is very telling of the stigmatisation of asylum seekers. Some of them are doctors and scientists especially from places like Syria.
  - dijit 3mo ago
    > That you consider immigrants to be automatically part of an 'underclass' is very telling of the stigmatisation of asylum seekers. What? Motherfucker I am part of the underclass, it's brutally hard to escape the underclass and unfortunately if you turn up to a country with no connections, no safety net, no money and no applicable skills then: YOU ARE PART OF THE UNDERCLASS. Why are all the Foodora drivers Arab? do you think Arabs are pre-disposed for food delivery? No, it's because gig-work that barely pays the bills is the only option for many: this is disgusting servitude, barely surviving like this. > Some of them are doctors and scientists especially from places like Syria. Doctors from Syria who don't speak Swedish, need to pass a bunch of Swedish certifications to practice and cannot take female patients aren't going to get along well. It's a valid point and one I would grant you, but it's very true that the observed reality of things is that asylum seekers are the most vulnerable in society. Pretending they're not doesn't make this not the case.
    - wolvoleo 3mo ago
      My ex is an immigrant from a poor country and she does this kind of job, like driving uber. For a middle man who provides the car so it's not very lucrative. Doesn't mean you're automatically underclass. In her whole family nobody is involved in anything criminal. In terms of wealth I would consider them middle class. Like me, I'm also a middle class immigrant though from a western (richer than here) country with university education. I'm just not very ambitious so I coast in a middle level job by choice. But they all came here with nothing more than high school diplomas. They just work harder for it than I do. Nights, tough work etc. She worked very hard to get a local passport too. Because that's not easy these days. The stereotype of immigrants ending up straight in the ghetto is incorrect IMO.
      - 3mo ago
mvdtnz 3mo ago
Nope, sorry, talking is never violence.
- YorickPeterse 3mo ago
  Ah yes, so if say Hitler says "millions of people should die" then it's not violence, it's "just" words.
  - peterfirefly 3mo ago
    [flagged]
skjoldr 3mo ago
Come to Ukraine and witness real "active violence". This is ridiculous.
- bossyTeacher 3mo ago
  There is more to violence than physical violence you know. Verbal, emotional violence is violence as often seen in domestic abuse cases.

therouwboat 3mo ago

Its not that they start to feel numb, they didn't care in the first place. I have had random co-workers start talking about how they don't want foreigners in Finland and that in Sweden immigrants (maybe you) get free money and don't work.

skjoldr 3mo ago
Asylum seekers in the EU indeed get a monthly allowance and are prohibited from working. Is this not a known fact?
- therouwboat 3mo ago
  They need to get permission, but they can work. I did mention that this person wanted all foreigners out.
- wolvoleo 3mo ago
  Which is a direct result of the right-wing conservatives complaining about them taking locals' jobs. There are some exceptions like for Ukrainian refugees. By the way this is only during the validation of their asylum-seeker status. Once they get permanent residency they can work.