4 ms·

Thank you for everything you do Fredrik. Very happy to be a customer of a company that supports freedom and privacy for everyone regardless of views.

gpm 3mo ago
> that supports freedom ... for everyone Unless you happen to be of Somalian descent in Sweden. Then you should be ripped away from the only home you've ever known, indeed possibly the only country you've ever been in, and sent to a foreign country you have no citizenship in, where you have no home, don't understand the language, know no one, and be forced to try and survive.
- peterfirefly 3mo ago
  > don't understand the language Seriously? It's not like the Somalis have been in Sweden that long.
  - Hikikomori 3mo ago
    Their children might not speak their language.
    - peterfirefly 3mo ago
      Most of those children wouldn't be able to communicate with their own parents, if that were the case. Somalis are usually not spread out among the natives. They tend to clump together in ethnic enclaves where it is very easy to learn Somali (and where life is unpleasant for the unfortunate child who doesn't learn it).
      - Hikikomori 3mo ago
        And some parents do learn Swedish so their children might not know their parents native language. Or have you inspected every Somalian family in Sweden? It might not be that many, but doesn't make his point any less true.
        peterfirefly 3mo ago
        I'd say it makes it "fewer" true ;) Surely we can agree that if such kids exist then they must be very, very few in number?
        Hikikomori 3mo ago
        So its okay then I guess?
        mlrtime 3mo ago
        Do you know of one, or is this some hypothetical think of the children argument to get sympathy?
        Hikikomori 3mo ago
        Not just against it for children, at this point they might be grown up attending university or even working. In theory it would even apply to my colleagues which have become citizens but do not speak Swedish. I don't believe that integration has worked well either, but it doesn't mean that I think we should "send back" people that were born here and don't have any other citizenship.
    - account42 3mo ago
      But they do. That's actually one of the biggest problems with mass migration - that all incentives go against integration into the host culture.
- throwawaypath 3mo ago
  This is entirely false, not every country is the USA. Sweden does not have birthright citizenship. Most Somalis and their children in Sweden are not Swedish citizens. To add, they all retain their Somali citizenship.
  - gpm 3mo ago
    Nowhere did I say anything about them being Swedish citizens - though I'll note if that distinction mattered at all (it doesn't) "most" wouldn't be good enough. I said they weren't necessarily Somali citizens. Somali citizenship when born outside the country is more complicated than that and will not be universal. Either way legal status is just one of many reasons why this would be a horrific crime against humanity requiring prosecution by the Hague under the Rome statutes. You're still ripping an entire ethnic group away from their homes.
    - throwawaypath 3mo ago
      >Nowhere did I say anything about them being Swedish citizens - though I'll note if that distinction mattered at all (it doesn't) It does matter, Somalis are not Swedes. They don't belong in Sweden, much the same as Swedes don't belong in Somalia. >You're still ripping an entire ethnic group away from their homes. Sweden is not the home of Somalis.
kfreds 3mo ago
Thank you!

gpm 3mo ago

> that supports freedom ... for everyone Unless you happen to be of Somalian descent in Sweden. Then you should be ripped away from the only home you've ever known, indeed possibly the only country you've ever been in, and sent to a foreign country you have no citizenship in, where you have no home, don't understand the language, know no one, and be forced to try and survive.

peterfirefly 3mo ago
> don't understand the language Seriously? It's not like the Somalis have been in Sweden that long.
- Hikikomori 3mo ago
  Their children might not speak their language.
  - peterfirefly 3mo ago
    Most of those children wouldn't be able to communicate with their own parents, if that were the case. Somalis are usually not spread out among the natives. They tend to clump together in ethnic enclaves where it is very easy to learn Somali (and where life is unpleasant for the unfortunate child who doesn't learn it).
    - Hikikomori 3mo ago
      And some parents do learn Swedish so their children might not know their parents native language. Or have you inspected every Somalian family in Sweden? It might not be that many, but doesn't make his point any less true.
      - peterfirefly 3mo ago
        I'd say it makes it "fewer" true ;) Surely we can agree that if such kids exist then they must be very, very few in number?
        Hikikomori 3mo ago
        So its okay then I guess?
        mlrtime 3mo ago
        Do you know of one, or is this some hypothetical think of the children argument to get sympathy?
        Hikikomori 3mo ago
        Not just against it for children, at this point they might be grown up attending university or even working. In theory it would even apply to my colleagues which have become citizens but do not speak Swedish. I don't believe that integration has worked well either, but it doesn't mean that I think we should "send back" people that were born here and don't have any other citizenship.
  - account42 3mo ago
    But they do. That's actually one of the biggest problems with mass migration - that all incentives go against integration into the host culture.
throwawaypath 3mo ago
This is entirely false, not every country is the USA. Sweden does not have birthright citizenship. Most Somalis and their children in Sweden are not Swedish citizens. To add, they all retain their Somali citizenship.
- gpm 3mo ago
  Nowhere did I say anything about them being Swedish citizens - though I'll note if that distinction mattered at all (it doesn't) "most" wouldn't be good enough. I said they weren't necessarily Somali citizens. Somali citizenship when born outside the country is more complicated than that and will not be universal. Either way legal status is just one of many reasons why this would be a horrific crime against humanity requiring prosecution by the Hague under the Rome statutes. You're still ripping an entire ethnic group away from their homes.
  - throwawaypath 3mo ago
    >Nowhere did I say anything about them being Swedish citizens - though I'll note if that distinction mattered at all (it doesn't) It does matter, Somalis are not Swedes. They don't belong in Sweden, much the same as Swedes don't belong in Somalia. >You're still ripping an entire ethnic group away from their homes. Sweden is not the home of Somalis.

kfreds 3mo ago

Thank you!