4 ms·

I don't understand this article. Europe is usually not this hot, hence lack of AC in many places. Floods and earthquakes are also uncommon, hence the buildings

I don't understand this article. Europe is usually not this hot, hence lack of AC in many places. Floods and earthquakes are also uncommon, hence the buildings in most places are not up to code against, say, Japanese standards.

ThrowawayTestr 3mo ago
How many old people need to die in heatwaves before you accept that the climate is changing?
pydry 3mo ago
An American decided to be smug because Europe suddenly passed the threshold where aircon went from a nice to have to a necessity.
- nozzlegear 3mo ago
  It's interesting that you found the author smug, rather than informative or maybe prosecutorial toward the European elites who ostensibly want to sacrifice the masses at the altar of degrowth.
  - pydry 3mo ago
    There is no "altar" of degrowth in Europe. it's interesting that Americans take such an "I told you so" attitude towards disasters they had such a disproportionate hand in creating.
    - nozzlegear 3mo ago
      > There is no "altar" of degrowth in Europe. Are you sure? It's about the only place in the world where the philosophy of degrowth ever managed to get a toehold (Amsterdam, Grenoble, Copenhagen, Barcelona and some other bits of Spain). > it's interesting that Americans take such an "I told you so" attitude towards disasters they had such a disproportionate hand in creating. I think you're attributing smugness and "I told you so" attitudes to text that lacks it, just like I'm attributing a posh British lord's accent to your text. Good day to you sir!
      - pydry 3mo ago
        >Are you sure? It's about the only place in the world where the philosophy of degrowth ever managed to get a toehold Yes, I'm sure. I think you might be confusing something some obscure academics have discussed and something the politicians with actual power in Europe have acted upon.
MengerSponge 3mo ago
AC is far more efficient than most heating methods, but there isn't the same level of censure applied to traditional heating technologies. If you listen, people talk about AC like it's inherently polluting, like it's something to moralize. Europe historically has not been this hot, but they regularly have heat waves. I remember a 40C heat wave more than a decade ago! That's enough time to add emergency infrastructure, unless you're hoping to snuff old people. When you get your third hundred year flood in a decade it's time to update your priors.
anamax 3mo ago
> Europe is usually not this hot, hence lack of AC in many places. Europe averages 53k to 175k heat-related deaths per year. The difference depends on whether you listen to the EC or the UN. https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/08/1152766 https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/08/1152766 The comparable number for the US is 4-11k, albeit with about 20% fewer people. Note that the US is further south than Europe and generally has higher temperatures.
- throwa356262 3mo ago
  #1 recommendation from the same link: Keeping out of the heat: Avoid going out and undertaking strenuous activities when the sun’s at its hottest. Stay in the shade and do not leave children or animals in parked vehicles. If necessary and possible, spend two to three hours in a cool place, such as a supermarket or cinema Sounds like the issue is not hot homes but people simply not knowing how dangerous being outside under the sun under such temperatures can be
  - discopicante 3mo ago
    The tell here is that it doesn't just say 'stay at home'. Most upper latitude European homes have been designed for mid-century cool(er) climates. They are extremely efficient at trapping and holding on to heat. Go look at any sub-reddit for central European cities over the past few days and you'll find multiple reports of 35+C conditions inside homes. Furthermore, you can find plenty of examples over the past week in those same cities of supermarket and cinema ACs in total failure modes. Not to mention most supermarkets are closed on Sundays. One real problem outside of the home is that there have been plenty of reported cases of drowning. Unclear if this is just statistical with the mobs of people (some of whom cannot swim, or swim well) who are forced to leave their homes to find relief.
- shaky-carrousel 3mo ago
  That's because the US and Europe count heat-related deaths differently. In the US they count deaths caused by heat. In Europe they count deaths worsened by heat.
- 3mo ago
m4rtink 3mo ago
Also many old houses & modern insulated buildings have a significant heat inertia - so if the heat wave is not too long & you do sane heat management (open windows during the night to cool down the flat/house, keep windows closed during the day) then you will hardly notice the heat in an European home.
discopicante 3mo ago
The primary difference being, Europe is not increasing their number of fault lines or bodies of water. The number of days of moderate to extreme heat in Europe have already significantly increased and will continue to. Furthermore, the costs of modern cooling are infinitely cheaper than solutions, if they exist, for other natural disasters. I lived in both Europe and the United States and traveled around the world. This article makes a lot of sense to me.
anabab 3mo ago
ACs are uncommon, yet red tape is plentiful.

ThrowawayTestr 3mo ago

How many old people need to die in heatwaves before you accept that the climate is changing?

pydry 3mo ago

An American decided to be smug because Europe suddenly passed the threshold where aircon went from a nice to have to a necessity.

nozzlegear 3mo ago
It's interesting that you found the author smug, rather than informative or maybe prosecutorial toward the European elites who ostensibly want to sacrifice the masses at the altar of degrowth.
- pydry 3mo ago
  There is no "altar" of degrowth in Europe. it's interesting that Americans take such an "I told you so" attitude towards disasters they had such a disproportionate hand in creating.
  - nozzlegear 3mo ago
    > There is no "altar" of degrowth in Europe. Are you sure? It's about the only place in the world where the philosophy of degrowth ever managed to get a toehold (Amsterdam, Grenoble, Copenhagen, Barcelona and some other bits of Spain). > it's interesting that Americans take such an "I told you so" attitude towards disasters they had such a disproportionate hand in creating. I think you're attributing smugness and "I told you so" attitudes to text that lacks it, just like I'm attributing a posh British lord's accent to your text. Good day to you sir!
    - pydry 3mo ago
      >Are you sure? It's about the only place in the world where the philosophy of degrowth ever managed to get a toehold Yes, I'm sure. I think you might be confusing something some obscure academics have discussed and something the politicians with actual power in Europe have acted upon.

MengerSponge 3mo ago

AC is far more efficient than most heating methods, but there isn't the same level of censure applied to traditional heating technologies. If you listen, people talk about AC like it's inherently polluting, like it's something to moralize. Europe historically has not been this hot, but they regularly have heat waves. I remember a 40C heat wave more than a decade ago! That's enough time to add emergency infrastructure, unless you're hoping to snuff old people. When you get your third hundred year flood in a decade it's time to update your priors.

anamax 3mo ago

> Europe is usually not this hot, hence lack of AC in many places. Europe averages 53k to 175k heat-related deaths per year. The difference depends on whether you listen to the EC or the UN. https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/08/1152766 https://news.un.org/en/story/2024/08/1152766 The comparable number for the US is 4-11k, albeit with about 20% fewer people. Note that the US is further south than Europe and generally has higher temperatures.

throwa356262 3mo ago
#1 recommendation from the same link: Keeping out of the heat: Avoid going out and undertaking strenuous activities when the sun’s at its hottest. Stay in the shade and do not leave children or animals in parked vehicles. If necessary and possible, spend two to three hours in a cool place, such as a supermarket or cinema Sounds like the issue is not hot homes but people simply not knowing how dangerous being outside under the sun under such temperatures can be
- discopicante 3mo ago
  The tell here is that it doesn't just say 'stay at home'. Most upper latitude European homes have been designed for mid-century cool(er) climates. They are extremely efficient at trapping and holding on to heat. Go look at any sub-reddit for central European cities over the past few days and you'll find multiple reports of 35+C conditions inside homes. Furthermore, you can find plenty of examples over the past week in those same cities of supermarket and cinema ACs in total failure modes. Not to mention most supermarkets are closed on Sundays. One real problem outside of the home is that there have been plenty of reported cases of drowning. Unclear if this is just statistical with the mobs of people (some of whom cannot swim, or swim well) who are forced to leave their homes to find relief.
shaky-carrousel 3mo ago
That's because the US and Europe count heat-related deaths differently. In the US they count deaths caused by heat. In Europe they count deaths worsened by heat.
3mo ago

m4rtink 3mo ago

Also many old houses & modern insulated buildings have a significant heat inertia - so if the heat wave is not too long & you do sane heat management (open windows during the night to cool down the flat/house, keep windows closed during the day) then you will hardly notice the heat in an European home.

discopicante 3mo ago

The primary difference being, Europe is not increasing their number of fault lines or bodies of water. The number of days of moderate to extreme heat in Europe have already significantly increased and will continue to. Furthermore, the costs of modern cooling are infinitely cheaper than solutions, if they exist, for other natural disasters. I lived in both Europe and the United States and traveled around the world. This article makes a lot of sense to me.

anabab 3mo ago

ACs are uncommon, yet red tape is plentiful.