4 ms·

Any mood or depression study without a control group is, unfortunately, useless. There is an interesting effect in mood related studies where every group usual

Any mood or depression study without a control group is, unfortunately, useless. There is an interesting effect in mood related studies where every group usually improves on average, even if they receive only placebo. The real measure of any depression study is therefore the improvement above and beyond the control group. The effect is so predictable that it has become an easy way to produce studies showing positive effects from something: All you have to do is track some group of people and then give ALL of them your supplement, and their scores will improve. It makes great headlines because most people don’t know you could have given them sugar pills and the scores would also improve. EDIT: As another commenter pointed out, this person has an unusual long list of financial affiliations with companies that produce drink products, too. This study should probably be ignored

RobotToaster 4mo ago
It's almost like having someone interested in your mental health (even if only to track it) is good for it?
- theturtlemoves 4mo ago
  You could be on to something. I mean, how many people might normally rarely get the question "How are you doing?"
  - david-gpu 4mo ago
    "I am fine, thank you. How are you?"
- fcatalan 4mo ago
  My therapist asked me to track my binge eating episodes, empty log after a week...
  - tomrod 4mo ago
    Keep tracking and reporting to someone you trust! It can really help to know others are invested in you, whether random internet strangers encouraging you or people in your life you trust.
- ambicapter 4mo ago
  This effect occurs even in non-mental health related studies.
hootz 4mo ago
[dead]
ivewonyoung 4mo ago
That tracks with even decaf coffee having the positive effects in the study.
404mm 4mo ago
Also, for anyone who ever tried to quit coffee, probably knows this— the period of feeling down, useless, slow, and tired after you quit is brutal for about 1-2 weeks and can last months for long-time coffee drinkers. No wonder people feel great after having coffee again. And decaf is not caffeine-free. Decaf coffee still contains about 5-10% of the original caffeine content compared to the same beans but not decaffeinated. And then there’s the tiny sample size :( and no control group. This is worse than useless. This is the kind of waste that news stations will pick and advertise.
- felix-the-cat 4mo ago
  I needed to quit drinking caffeine and my wife decided to just start transitioning me onto decaf without telling me, each week mixing a little more into the regular coffee bean cannister until it was basically 100% decaf. It worked really well, as I didn't find out I'd been drinking 100% decaf until she told me about it.
  - TwoFerMaggie 4mo ago
    I had the same process as you (see my comment) and it was much better than quitting it cold turkey.
- TwoFerMaggie 4mo ago
  I've quit from daily 3-4 shots of espresso to only drinking it when I feel like it, which is about once every two weeks. The process was mostly without discomfort: I bought decaf beans and started cutting my coffee grounds with 50% decaf. After two weeks, 75% decaf. Then 87.5%, etc. About two months later I stopped experiencing withdrawals if I don't drink any coffee at all. Before I started cutting I would get massive headaches and become irritable if I don't drink coffee in the morning. Now I'm free! I encourage all heavy coffee drinkers try drinking less. At some point, it stops improving your cognitive functions but instead just maintains a mediocre baseline, which I suppose is the same as almost all substance reliance. > In fact, none of the sleep researchers or experts on circadian rhythms I interviewed for this story use caffeine. https://www.theguardian.com/food/2021/jul/06/caffeine-coffee-tea-invisible-addiction-is-it-time-to-give-up https://www.theguardian.com/food/2021/jul/06/caffeine-coffee...
heggy 4mo ago
I agree with all your points, it just leads me to this question: How did this get published in Nature Communications? Surely these are the first things raised by peer review.

RobotToaster 4mo ago

It's almost like having someone interested in your mental health (even if only to track it) is good for it?

theturtlemoves 4mo ago
You could be on to something. I mean, how many people might normally rarely get the question "How are you doing?"
- david-gpu 4mo ago
  "I am fine, thank you. How are you?"
fcatalan 4mo ago
My therapist asked me to track my binge eating episodes, empty log after a week...
- tomrod 4mo ago
  Keep tracking and reporting to someone you trust! It can really help to know others are invested in you, whether random internet strangers encouraging you or people in your life you trust.
ambicapter 4mo ago
This effect occurs even in non-mental health related studies.

hootz 4mo ago

[dead]

ivewonyoung 4mo ago

That tracks with even decaf coffee having the positive effects in the study.

404mm 4mo ago

Also, for anyone who ever tried to quit coffee, probably knows this— the period of feeling down, useless, slow, and tired after you quit is brutal for about 1-2 weeks and can last months for long-time coffee drinkers. No wonder people feel great after having coffee again. And decaf is not caffeine-free. Decaf coffee still contains about 5-10% of the original caffeine content compared to the same beans but not decaffeinated. And then there’s the tiny sample size :( and no control group. This is worse than useless. This is the kind of waste that news stations will pick and advertise.

felix-the-cat 4mo ago
I needed to quit drinking caffeine and my wife decided to just start transitioning me onto decaf without telling me, each week mixing a little more into the regular coffee bean cannister until it was basically 100% decaf. It worked really well, as I didn't find out I'd been drinking 100% decaf until she told me about it.
- TwoFerMaggie 4mo ago
  I had the same process as you (see my comment) and it was much better than quitting it cold turkey.
TwoFerMaggie 4mo ago
I've quit from daily 3-4 shots of espresso to only drinking it when I feel like it, which is about once every two weeks. The process was mostly without discomfort: I bought decaf beans and started cutting my coffee grounds with 50% decaf. After two weeks, 75% decaf. Then 87.5%, etc. About two months later I stopped experiencing withdrawals if I don't drink any coffee at all. Before I started cutting I would get massive headaches and become irritable if I don't drink coffee in the morning. Now I'm free! I encourage all heavy coffee drinkers try drinking less. At some point, it stops improving your cognitive functions but instead just maintains a mediocre baseline, which I suppose is the same as almost all substance reliance. > In fact, none of the sleep researchers or experts on circadian rhythms I interviewed for this story use caffeine. https://www.theguardian.com/food/2021/jul/06/caffeine-coffee-tea-invisible-addiction-is-it-time-to-give-up https://www.theguardian.com/food/2021/jul/06/caffeine-coffee...

heggy 4mo ago

I agree with all your points, it just leads me to this question: How did this get published in Nature Communications? Surely these are the first things raised by peer review.