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Are open labs just loss leaders backed by Chinese govt? Is this like electric cars where the goal is to flood the market with good enough quality for free so th

Are open labs just loss leaders backed by Chinese govt? Is this like electric cars where the goal is to flood the market with good enough quality for free so they end up dominating the market? Or is there a business model I’m missing?

34679 3mo ago
US EVs were also heavily subsidized, but they were all built using Chinese parts.
- someperson 3mo ago
  The EV supply chain in the US back in say 2007 certainly had far fewer key parts sourced from China than recent years. As far as US EVs being subsidized early, if you take state and federal tax incentives, DoE grants and loan guarantees as subsidizes then that's true. It's debatable (I think incentives applied to all suppliers not just US ones) but a reasonable statement.
  - nojvek 3mo ago
    Tesla given $60M by Obama admin when they were deep in debt and may have gone out of business. so Tesla technically is subsidized by US govt. SpaceX too. Without NASA funding, they'd be long out of business. China and US ain't that different. China realizes that being a tech and industrial powerhouse working on future tech is great for their economy. They bet huge on it. That's how they win. Europe on the other hand is now a laggard.
- Rover222 3mo ago
  US EVs were "lightly" subsidized compared to what the Chinese govt has done. In the ballpark of 250 billion dollars by the Chinese vs maybe 10% of that by the US.
  - DiogenesKynikos 3mo ago
    Note that most of those subsidies are things like sales-tax exemptions for EVs and support for charging infrastructure in China. In other words, they're not subsidies for Chinese cars being exported abroad. They're not even directly paid to the manufacturers.
    - Rover222 3mo ago
      Fair point
gordonhart 3mo ago
It's the same old "commoditize your complement" [0] playbook being run in the geopolitical arena. [0] https://gwern.net/complement https://gwern.net/complement
deleted 3mo ago
[deleted]
eunos 3mo ago
> Are open labs just loss leaders backed by Chinese govt There are many layers of Chinese govt. But GLM is backed by Beijing municipal govt and Tsinghua University.

34679 3mo ago

US EVs were also heavily subsidized, but they were all built using Chinese parts.

someperson 3mo ago
The EV supply chain in the US back in say 2007 certainly had far fewer key parts sourced from China than recent years. As far as US EVs being subsidized early, if you take state and federal tax incentives, DoE grants and loan guarantees as subsidizes then that's true. It's debatable (I think incentives applied to all suppliers not just US ones) but a reasonable statement.
- nojvek 3mo ago
  Tesla given $60M by Obama admin when they were deep in debt and may have gone out of business. so Tesla technically is subsidized by US govt. SpaceX too. Without NASA funding, they'd be long out of business. China and US ain't that different. China realizes that being a tech and industrial powerhouse working on future tech is great for their economy. They bet huge on it. That's how they win. Europe on the other hand is now a laggard.
Rover222 3mo ago
US EVs were "lightly" subsidized compared to what the Chinese govt has done. In the ballpark of 250 billion dollars by the Chinese vs maybe 10% of that by the US.
- DiogenesKynikos 3mo ago
  Note that most of those subsidies are things like sales-tax exemptions for EVs and support for charging infrastructure in China. In other words, they're not subsidies for Chinese cars being exported abroad. They're not even directly paid to the manufacturers.
  - Rover222 3mo ago
    Fair point

gordonhart 3mo ago

It's the same old "commoditize your complement" [0] playbook being run in the geopolitical arena. [0] https://gwern.net/complement https://gwern.net/complement

deleted 3mo ago

[deleted]

eunos 3mo ago

> Are open labs just loss leaders backed by Chinese govt There are many layers of Chinese govt. But GLM is backed by Beijing municipal govt and Tsinghua University.