4 ms·
Lots of privilege in this thread showing. This is the equivalent of "what global warming, it was so cold today". Please remember that just because you aren't ex
by quadrifoliate 4mo ago
Lots of privilege in this thread showing. This is the equivalent of "what global warming, it was so cold today". Please remember that just because you aren't expected to have consistent unpaid after-hours comms doesn't mean that others don't.
Bills like this would help a lot of people who are victims of "can you just take a look at this real quick" at 6pm. It does need to be at the country level though, otherwise employers will just play off states against each other.
- nfw2 4mo agoMost of the roles I've had involved irregular and long hours. In most cases, I've been happy to take these roles. The article isn't clear how exactly this is intended to work. I think no surprise hours that aren't recognized in the terms of employment makes sense. But also I think I should be able to agree to being available if I am willing to be. Remote Michigan tech workers already have enough trouble as tech companies insist on returning to office.
- idiotsecant 4mo agoThis is simple. You're on call, you're paid to be on call. Anyone accepting anything different is encouraging this behaviour. Unionize and this goes away.
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- preg_match 4mo agoIf long and irregular hours are expected, then those hours should be tracked and paid out at a rate. Companies absolutely abuse salary exemptions and it’s getting ridiculous. If you have to “clock in” at the exact same time every day, “clock out” at the exact same time every day, and are expected to work additional scheduled hours outside of work, you should be paid hourly and receive overtime. You are an hourly employee. Not a salary one. You might be called a salary employee. But no, you’re working as an hourly employee. If companies expect you to be on call, that’s great. Pay an on call hourly rate. Problem solved. But you can’t just take a salary employee, treat them like they work at McDonald’s and then pay a base bi weekly salary. That’s not okay IMO.
- nekusar 4mo agoOh I've known from back my food service days that "management" aka salary was a fucking scam. It was ALWAYS a way to get massive unpaid overtime extracted upon threat of firing. And overtime for workers was inexcusable, no matter what. Got a rush? Too fucking bad, clock out. These days professionally, I agreed to 40h/week. That's what they get. If there's a real outage or un-manufactured crisis, then I'll stick around. But its comp time for the week. I don't work for free for capitalists. If they want more labor, they can pay for more.
- microgpt 4mo ago> I don't work for free for capitalists. What's your opinion on [cuck licensing](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48708655 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48708655)?
- nekusar 4mo agoPeople who choose MIT or BSD licenses etm are idiots. I'm staunchly for AGPL3, and harsh and strong enforcement actions against violators. You know, what the companies would do to us. Tit for tat.
- genewitch 4mo agoi like giving stuff away for free, but if it's tenable for the market i'll look at agpl3. The thing that would break my spirit is if something i made was used, for free, by a company to infringe on privacy or show interstitial ads. I used to not care, now i do.
- microgpt 4mo agoI think the most moral position is reciprocity: I'll give you free stuff if you pay it back/forward. If you want to lock it down then too bad, I locked it down first so pay me. Which is basically the situation you get from [A]GPL. You still have the option to offer a different license in exchange for money.
- fuzzy_lumpkins 4mo agoSame. For my role I need to be able to be on hands after 5 here and there, and I knew that going in and works great for me because of the level I’m at. But absolutely employees should have the full choice without coercion or fear of repercussions.
- gwbas1c 4mo ago> It does need to be at the country level though, otherwise employers will just play off states against each other. Laws like this often happen in the states first, if/when they catch on, it puts pressure on the federal government; often to avoid the confusion of 50 different variations on the law.
- tbrownaw 4mo ago> a lot of people who are victims of Are there statistics somewhere about what percent of people in various roles get asked but know they're safe declining, or mistakenly think they can't decline, or correctly think they'd get in trouble for declining, or don't get asked but think they have to anyway?
- Chu4eeno 4mo agoI can recommend the documentary Office Space, it goes into great detail about this.
- expedition32 4mo agoBuddha was exceptional because he actually WANTED to know what was going on outside of his luxury palace. Most people just want to pretend everything is fine. They sleep better at night.
- calvinmorrison 4mo agoone of the most common in lower paying jobs is just CONSTANT scheduling churn, group texts with the entire restaurant/bar you're supposed to on. Instead of having a normal schedule everything is ad hoc
- genewitch 4mo agoi heard, long ago, there's a reason for that. it can't be the nonsense it looks like since so many established places use ad-hoc scheduling, it appears. I like the other kind of ad-hoc scheduling, which is i roll in when i get in, and take lunch when i get hungry, and leave when traffic has cleared up.
- jackfischer 4mo agoWhy is this a government issue at all? It was unclear from the article why some contingent that doesn't like their relationship with their employer ought to be able to inflict their solution on everyone in Michigan via politics as the mechanism instead of the market
- Henchman21 4mo agoGovernment is meant, in part, to give some amount of power & push-back to the least among us. Representative government is the solution we arrived at after we decided it was kinda shitty to just kill each other. Why are you trying to deny people the representation they deserve and prevent the government from doing something people might want? Seems like some ideologically-based bullshit to me.
- jackfischer 4mo ago_Some_ people _might_ want - and a very privileged something at that! This is not west virginia coal wars. Why do a handful of ideologues get to insert themselves in the employee employer relationship for something so tame?
- Henchman21 4mo agoBecause that is the form of government we have. We seek redress to our grievances in the way these folks have acted. Your POV is essentially “shut up and take it” or “find a new job”. Neither of these addresses the issue being raised. Nor does the idea that this is somehow “too tame” — that’s just dismissive. Again I ask why you seek to deny others their rights?
- rainsford 4mo agoGovernment regulation around conditions of employment has a very long history, because "the market" has a long history of producing things like Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire when it's allowed to. While in theory the market punishes bad employers by making people not want to work for them, the reality is that for all but the most in-demand individuals, the power asymmetry between an individual and their employer is such that some level of government regulation is probably needed to maintain reasonable working conditions. You could certainly argue whether regulating this particular thing is a good idea or not of course.
- SE5pc3JhY2lzdA 4mo agoThis is the equivalent of "what global warming, it was so cold today" Conversely, I've seen the latest heat wave in France to try to justify global warming all over HN comments, when the reality is that this is temperature and not climate. "Bills like this would help a lot of people who are victims of "can you just take a look at this real quick" at 6pm. It does need to be at the country level though, otherwise employers will just play off states against each other." If someone that worked for me is unwilling to help out in these situations occasionally, I wouldn't make them do anything (and follow the law). I also wouldn't promote them. Many higher level positions require a certain level of responsibility, and this would just show me that the person can't handle it. I do agree though. If this law were in Michigan and I had a company here, any job that required after hours communication would be outsourced to another state or country.