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California legislature agrees to upload driver's licenses to national database
- Sjeiti 4mo agoThat is fitting: "Error establishing a database connection"
- johng 4mo agoThe article doesn't seem to go into any discussion or reasoning why Gavin Newsom would want to cooperate with this, seemingly against his own party? What are the downsides of not cooperating? What is his motivation or benefits for capitulating? Edit: Oh, ahhh I see: "Governor Gavin Newsom agreed to upload driver's license data to a national database primarily to comply with the Real ID Act of 2005 and avoid federal threats that would prevent California IDs from being accepted at airports and other federal facilities. This decision was finalized through a budget compromise with the state legislature following intense pressure from the U.S. Department of Homeland Security"
- iamnothere 4mo agoIt was a strategic move by Newsom to comply with giving your data to a historically unpopular fedgov led by a historically unpopular president at a time when resisting would have been supported by his base and would have raised his political capital (and national profile). Very smart move. (There is only one team in US politics.)
- deleted 4mo ago[deleted]
- readthenotes1 4mo agoI think many people will assume you're historically unpopular president and fed gov are the current ones. Since the federal law requiring this was passed in 2005, it's another historically and unpopular president and fedgov. (I am of course referring to Abraham Lincoln and the 1861 federal government)
- iamnothere 4mo agoStates can choose not to comply, in fact the lack of compliance is why the deadlines keep getting pushed back. CA joining removes a huge roadblock for full implementation given its population.
- Spooky23 4mo agoThese issues are really complicated because they aren’t left versus right. Conservatives and progressives both tend to be ideologically skeptical of enhancements/sharing of ID. From a state perspective, there’s a lot of benefit to exchanging this type of information across state lines through AAMVA. It reduces a lot of fraud, avoids a lot of insurance issues that cost the state taxpayers a lot of money. It has a lot of benefits to things like commercial motor carrier safety that have a direct benefit to the public. For example, New York does direct entity to entity sharing of many driving records with Ontario and Quebec. The Canadians benefited because I don’t allow people with DWIs to enter Canada, New York benefited by keeping unsafe truckers off state highways, who were exploiting certain pools in Canadian regulations. It’ll take a bit of time, But the long game here is that the United States will have a national ID system. The big conflict is that states issue licenses (AB 60 in California, “green light” in other places) without regard to the ability to provide legal documentation of legal residency. Advocates fear that the sharing will be used by the hypervigilant immigration bureaucracy. States don’t enforce immigration law, but every resident of a state is at risk if people are driving around without insurance or without being subject to driving licensing laws. This also allows populations like the homeless to get IDs, But it’s being used as a punching bag by right wing commentators, rallying against illegal alien truckers and other nonsense.
- tough 4mo agoMaybe if both left and right weren't just puppets for the capital that finances their superPACs it would be more believable that they're different things
- gruez 4mo agoHow does sharing drivers license information help "capital"? Sure you can probably handwave some stuff about how sending that information helps the surveillance state which can be used to stop occupy wall st style protests, but it's not clear how that's more convincing than the other common refrain, which is that immigration (legal or otherwise) helps "capital" because it drives down labor costs.
- jandrewrogers 4mo agoStates can implement Real ID without sharing the data with the Federal government. The only mandatory part is the standardization. States can (and do) share this data with each other directly. The Federal government can't constructively require States to share the Real ID data with them, only ask politely, as that would go against existing Constitutional case law. Many States have declined to share Real ID data with the Federal government while still implementing Real ID. It is a bit surprising that California would agree to this.
- QGQBGdeZREunxLe 4mo agoWhich states have declined to share data?
- iamnothere 4mo agoSee my comment elsewhere in this post, unfortunately once a state joins it is possible for AAMVA to compel the addition of all license data to the database, if the state wishes to remain Real ID compliant. AAMVA is a private entity that can change requirements without oversight.
- m-hodges 4mo agoRoughly 9 years ago: https://neveragain.tech/ https://neveragain.tech/
- chopete3 4mo agoThis is a very good pledge to have all humans to sign up for anywhere on the globe. >>We are choosing to stand in solidarity with Muslim Americans, This particular word, with no other specifc identities after that, takes the air out of this massive effort and gives the impression it is a localized effort.
- ang_cire 4mo agoDo you understand that you're basically pulling an "All Lives Matter" right now? This statement was about the specific incoming US administration that was anti-immigrant, and especially anti-Muslim. It is a localized effort, because not every place has the same problems and needs the same solutions, and hyper-generalized statements that don't call out any particular instances of a problem are meaningless.
- HDBaseT 4mo agoneveragain.tech has had signgatures from thousands of engineers/developers/etc, yet ctrl+f 'Palantir' and many Palantir employees have signed that document.
- giantg2 4mo agoThe author is concerned that the feds could subpoena the data from the company that it's being submitted to. Wouldn't this same concern apply to the feds serving a subpoena to the state? Once the data is out there, it's out there. If one level of government has it, all the peer/higher levels will have access of they want it. It sounds like this database is the one that feeds license data to NCIC. The bigger question here is if we should be compiling and using data in the NCIC suchbas driver licenses and carry permits.
- iamnothere 4mo agoStates can and do resist federal subpoenas and have more leeway in doing so. They also have enormous legal resources.
- giantg2 4mo agoThis is pretty rare. I find it unlikely the state would fight against basic driver license records released under a subpoena.
- iamnothere 4mo agoIt’s unlikely, yes, but in the context of a battle between the executive branch and a state (over some question of rights) then it’s plausible. Depends on the state, why the information is being requested, and what’s going on in politics. State powers are a check on the federal government (10th Amendment). States need to assert those powers to keep them.
- giantg2 4mo agoThe 10th amendment is practically useless the way courts have interpreted other parts of the constitution.
- iamnothere 4mo agoCan’t win even a single battle if you won’t try to fight.
- sandworm101 4mo agoArticle has bad title. "about all driver’s licenses and ID cards" This isnt just about drivers. That matters. Driving a car is not a fundamental right. But access to a state ID card, something you will need to access many services, probably is.
- ck2 4mo agoI thought because of RealID made just after 9/11 all drivers licenses had to be in federal database anyway? Not that it's acceptable but federal database of drivers licenses is smallest of privacy problems these days with federal overreach NSA never ever stopped collecting phone calls, they have been storing that data in larger and larger databases in the deserts. Now "ai" can make all that into some insane level of datamining
- toast0 4mo ago> I thought because of RealID made just after 9/11 all drivers licenses had to be in federal database anyway? At least Washington state still issues UnrealID in case the applicant is not willing to pay the extra fee or cannot or willnot provide the extra documentation. I don't think UnrealIDs have to be submitted? As I understand it, most other states rolled the extra cost into the general fee for IDs, but Washington does not like to spread costslike that.
- iamnothere 4mo agoUnfortunately, the way the system is structured, once enough states are compliant then mandating the uploading ALL DLs to the system (Real ID or not) becomes possible without additional legislation. See https://papersplease.org/wp/2016/02/11/how-the-real-id-act-is-creating-a-national-id-database/ https://papersplease.org/wp/2016/02/11/how-the-real-id-act-i... > States aren’t (yet) required to upload pointers for noncompliant licenses or ID cards. There’s been no explicit announcement of the full live launch of S2S, but it appears that the first states are only beginning to use S2S (other than as a pilot project) this month. The DHS isn’t (yet) considering whether states have complied with the database access provisions of the REAL-ID Act when it makes its discretionary decisions whether to certify “material” compliance or “progress” toward compliance. But AAMVA, which determines the SPEXS standards, could add a requirement for upload of pointers for all licenses and IDs, not just “compliant” ones, to its specifications for system participation at any time. And the DHS will eventually have to assess actual compliance with the REAL-ID Act, not mere progress toward it. At that point, any state that wants to use S2S and SPEXS as the basis for a compliance finding will have to upload pointer records for all licenses and ID cards it has issued — even noncompliant or “opt-out” licenses or IDs. This has the effect of creating a private national ID database, without transparency or accountability, which is kind of a worst-case scenario. (AAMVA is a private entity.)
- wat10000 4mo agoWe should switch to a national ID system and be done with it. The patchwork we have is getting more ridiculous by the day.
- CharlesW 4mo agoAgreed, this would be a great way to streamline our country's government-controlled digital panopticon.
- wat10000 4mo agoI don’t get the impression that the current system is really getting in the way of that.
- throwaway85825 4mo agoInstead we get a private panopticon that the government just rents.
- Eufrat 4mo agoSome of this is just the nature of American culture. Acceptance/rejection of federal authority is often irrational and leads to this patchwork. For instance, replace this statement with a national gun registry and watch people flip out.
- mindslight 4mo agoNot without an equivalent of the GDPR. Our current identification systems (DL#/SSN) are currently being flagrantly abused by the surveillance industry. This needs to be stopped before we go making identification even stronger.
- devmor 4mo agoI don’t want the federal government to have control or oversight on my ID. Why would anyone want that?
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- throwaway85825 4mo agoThe federal government could just scrape the data through the many data sharing programs. It's more political posturing that policy.
- thraway3837 4mo agoI'm not fully understanding what this means or how to react to it because I just don't know. Can someone with a deep understanding of this and what this means to us regular folks please explain?
- belZaah 4mo agoIt’s a sign of a badly designed system. In a well-designed one (have seen one, have helped to improve several) the drivers license database only has a personal identifier and the class of license identifier. Which is private information for sure but it would hardly be an end of the world if the feds learned I have the right to operate a motorcycle. Perversely, this is the consequence of misguided privacy initiatives. Government agencies are discouraged or even forbidden from sharing data. Nobody has a reliable identifier. As a consequence, every single database out there will contain your name, dob, address and probably a photo. Oh, and because there’s no identity, they need to store a bunch more data to make sure you are not a fraudster. Also, in absence of a sensible electronic identity (because there’s no identity at all in the system), all of this data is used as a shared secret. Which makes it immediately commercially useful for identity theft, once obtained. And, of course, any of these giant piles of personal data can and will be breached in some way or another by both local and remote state actors. It’s all because “identifiers are bad” and “no sharing information”. Are you guys satisfied with the privacy situation yet?
- nullc 4mo agoHow does this differ from what they already sell to LexisNexis?